Hello again Ewan,
My experience as a military brat that occasionally went to work with my USAF Dad and then in the USN was that space allocation for the crew is a lower priority than weapons, armor, and speed or whatever requirement for the design needed to complete the ship's mission profile.While working on a Traveller project after retiring from the USN I discovered that there is a manual for crew habitability requirements. Of course the manual also includes wiggle room for when the requirements can be modified.
Researching the civilian side the design parameters focus on what the ship is designed to do. Cruise ships are designed to carry passengers at varying price points of comfort. Most of the ship's space is devoted to passenger support and somewhere down the line the designer provides the majority of the crew with the space that meets minimum habitability standards.
I do agree that the problem with weapons that need physical munitions is that they tend to run out in combat since they can never carry enough reloads.
Tom Rux
On July 12, 2019 at 2:52 AM Ewan <xxxxxx@quibell.org.uk> wrote:
MT gives a volume for a single missile and can iirc. In which case you either divide you’re magazine space by the volume of a missile to find out how many you can put in, or multiply the size of a missile by the number you want to find out the magazine size you need to deploy.It’s usually a work out between the two, because magazine space compromises something else, cargo or crew accommodations usually, which is another reason I don’t like missiles and sand. You run out of ammo and it takes up space that could be used for something else.Still we all like to imagine the deadly silence of thousands of missiles coming out of a dreadnought heading straight towards us through the vastness of space.Best regards,Ewan
--xxxxxx@quibell.org.ukSent from my ZX81For the fallen in the cause of the free:"When I go home I will tell of them and say,For our tomorrow, They gave their today."My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic licenseHello again Cian,
I thought that one of the books indicated that MT turrets had 3 rounds in an installed missile and sandcaster turret like CT. Unfortunately, my physical review and searching of my PDF books has not turned up the information.
I did try backtracking from the information provided before posting, but here goes another try.
Total missiles in magazines: 56,160 for 24 hours of continuous combat. In one hour of combat that equals 2,340 missiles. In one twenty minute combat round that is 780 missiles launched by 100 triple missile turrets. One hundred triple missile turrets equals 300 launchers which means 300 missiles.
The suggestion made by Ewan makes sense to me until I can figure out the way the errata came up with the numbers. Even if I do figure this out due using the incorrect hull volume for the meson screen my numbers exceed the hull volume of a 75,000 UCP hull.
Thank you again for the suggestions.
Tom Rux
On July 11, 2019 at 1:10 PM Cian Witherspoon < xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
Does MT follow the usual rules for missiles and canisters per ton? Final figure should be somewhere between that and the number of rounds per weapon station. Alternatively, backtrack from all examples of magazines that Fugate wrote. Probably do both, since that should give you a range for the actual number of rounds per ton of magazine.On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 10:58 Ewan < xxxxxx@quibell.org.uk> wrote:Hi Thomas,I just work out magazine size and capability by the number of rounds I want my missile turrets to fire.It’s a easy to think about it for me in this way because I had trouble with reloads in the beginning.Take a single missile turret. It fires one missile every combat round, so if you want the missile turret to be active for 30 combat rounds then you need 30 missiles. Simple. Calculate the magazine size you need to hold 30 missiles, add that in, and then add 30 missiles weight to the loaded weight.If you have a triple sand caster turret the you need three cans of sand per combat round. 30 combat rounds is thus 90 canisters. Size the magazine appropriately, add 90 cans to loaded weight and away you go.Don’t worry about the figures in the example, just go with how many times you want your batteries to fire and how many missiles are thrown in each battery and take it from there.I always try and keep it simple. That and load up with laser and plasma weapons that don’t need reloads so you never run out of ammo. I never use missiles and sand on PC ships for exactly that reason. Having a single canister of sand is better than nothing of course, but it just doesn’t compare with being able to fire a single pulse laser every combat round.Best regards,Ewan--xxxxxx@quibell.org.ukSent from my ZX81For the fallen in the cause of the free:"When I go home I will tell of them and say,For our tomorrow, They gave their today."My spelling is entirerly due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic licenseHello Cian Witherspoon,
Thank you for the reply and my apologies for the confusion I've caused.
I had a number of partially completed spreadsheets, which I've deleted, and dug out the copy of A MT Starship Design Example by Joe D. Fugate Sr. that Donald McKinney updated with errata from his complied work MT Consolidated Errata in order to finally bash together a working but clunky spreadsheet to work through the MT COACC Guardian-Class (TL 12) Orbital Battle Station.
I've gotten to the last design step in which Mr. Fugate Sr. creates reload magazines for the missile and sandcaster turrets. I've done a quick design check of the Guardian and I've found that I might have space for a reload magazine. Unfortunately, I have not been able to figure out how Mr. Fugate Sr. determined magazine capacities.
Again, thank you for the reply.
Tom Rux
On July 11, 2019 at 7:36 AM Cian Witherspoon < xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
I honestly have no idea, since the particular loadout depends on the mission profile of the station. The fix might be up to you now.On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 21:36 Thomas RUX < xxxxxx@comcast.net> wrote:Hello all,
I'm sad to say that this is not my first attempt at using Joe D. Fugate Sr.'s A MT Starship Design Example by Joe D. Fugate Sr. with Donald McKinney's errata. I'm not sure how long before Donald McKinney's passing I made an attempt at using the document to build an MT spreadsheet. During the attempt I found additional errata and began sending them to him, unfortunately I never finished the project. The really sad thing is that now I have no idea of who to send the errata with the suggested fixes to for review.
With that out of the way I'm having trouble understanding how the load out for the missile and sand canister was determined.
Page 5: 100 triple missile turrets are installed.
Page 6: 100 triple sandcaster turrets
The following material was added as errata to Page 13 by Donald McKinney:
"We now need to consider additional rounds for the missile and sandcaster turrets. A good measure for magazine carriage is to allow for up to 24 hours of constant exchange (which is ridiculous for encounters, but provides plenty of ammunition. This will require 780 missiles and 1800 sandcasters per turn. Remember that the weight of ammunition goes towards loaded weight, but not unloaded weight."
MT Referee's Manual p. 90:
Combat Round: Combat is resolved in rounds. Each combat round represents 20 minutes of elapsed time. Thus, three combat rounds equal one hour.
Within a single round, each individual spacecraft is allowed an opportunity to move and to attack. Each may be attacked by one or more enemy spacecraft.
Once all spacecraft in the battle have been provided with the opportunity to act, the combat round is over, and the next combat round begins.
If I've got the above right 300 missile launchers can throw out 300 missile in one turn of 20 minutes in one hour that is 900 missiles. Moving on 300 sandcaster throw out 300 canisters in the first 20 minutes again in one hour that is 900 canisters. At this point I'm over by 120 missiles and short 900 for the sandcaster. Based on my data above a 24 hour supply of missiles and canisters is 21,600.
Below the text the magazine load out is 56,160 missiles and 129,600 canisters.
Can anyone explain to me what I'm missing. This is the last item of the example which would, in theory, build the MT: COACC Guardian-Class Orbital Battle Station. Off course the build will be different since I'll include a maneuver drive, bridge, and other information not shown.
Tom Rux
-----
The Traveller Mailing List
Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
To unsubscribe from this list please go to
http://archives.simplelists.com-----
The Traveller Mailing List
Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
To unsubscribe from this list please go to
http://archives.simplelists.com-----
The Traveller Mailing List
Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
To unsubscribe from this list please go to
http://archives.simplelists.com-----
The Traveller Mailing List
Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
To unsubscribe from this list please go to
http://archives.simplelists.com-----
The Traveller Mailing List
Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
To unsubscribe from this list please go to
http://archives.simplelists.com-----
The Traveller Mailing List
Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
To unsubscribe from this list please go to
http://archives.simplelists.com
-----
The Traveller Mailing List
Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
To unsubscribe from this list please go to
http://www.simplelists.com/confirm.php?u=zZOCJCw2BI9jPrGTB4OJoibiHbbTEiok