Does anyone know if the HIWG CDs are still available?  I have a dead email.


On Thursday, February 20, 2020, 07:11:32 PM EST, Traveller Mailing List <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:


(Previous discussion continued)
Re: [TML] TL8 Passenger Cars - Jeff Zeitlin (20 Feb 2020 04:46 UTC)
Re: [TML] TL8 PassengerCars - David Jaques-Watson (20 Feb 2020 11:01 UTC)

Re: [TML] TL8 Passenger Cars by Jeff Zeitlin (20 Feb 2020 04:46 UTC)
Reply to list

    On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 18:20:33 -0000, wrote:

    >Put them in as is, and add an explanation to go with them:

    I think I'll revise the first and last paragraphs as shown... :) The rest,
    modulo minor copyediting (which has been done on the text here) can pretty
    much stand as-is... (I've deleted the reference to "Imperial" miles; unlike
    gallons, miles are the same on both sides of the Atlantic.)

    >"Our glorious editor, Jeff, pointed out that if these were published as is
    >then he would likely get feedback to say that the range and duration on
    >these TL8 vehicles is significantly greater than present day cars, currently
    >on the market. And he is of course completely correct (as always (and as we
    >have come to expect)) ...

    "Author's Note: The range and duration of these vehicles is noticeably
    greater than that of nominally similar present-day cars.

    >Please remember that MegaTraveller and its design system, used to build
    >these, is about 30 years old, and while it's had the benefits of 30 years of
    >Travellers pointing out its inconsistencies and then subtly adjusting the
    >system to better fit reality, it was and still is pretty good at turning out
    >vehicles that approximate reality.
    >
    >In this instance, the Urban Class Passenger Car has a fuel tank that is
    >probably twice that of a car of today (26 gallons (imperial) vs 13 for a
    >Ford Mondeo Estate), and while its MPG of around 34 isn't the best, it's
    >only 4 off the Mondeo in urban driving. It has a range of around 890 miles
    >against around 715 miles for the Mondeo (with efficient motorway
    >driving), and weighs about 600kg less than an unloaded Mondeo Estate. It's
    >also (adjusting for dollar inflation over the last 30 years) about 1/3 of
    >the price of a new Mondeo, and has 2.75 times the cargo capacity of my
    >chosen comparison vehicle, although its top speed is rubbish.
    >
    >The Urban E Class suffers the same against electric vehicles of today: it's
    >about twice the range, significantly cheaper with much more cargo capacity.
    >
    >You can of course adjust the parameters to suit your game especially if
    >you're using Traveller rules to play a modern day Earth setting (which in
    >itself would be pretty cool ...), and I could probably play with the ratios
    >of the power of the engine and suspension and transmission of the wheels to
    >see if I could get the stats to better match reality, but I could also
    >leave that as a exercise for the reader ...
    >
    >So while not perfect, they aren't way off, which ain't half bad, especially
    >given that the rules were published at the same time as the TML came into
    >being."

    So, while not perfect representations of the current state of the
    technology, they aren't unresonably far off, especially given that the
    rules were published just over thirty years ago."

    "Editor's Note: The Ford Mondeo reference vehicle is marketed in the
    Americas, the Middle East, and South Korea as the Ford Fusion. Imperial
    gallons convert to US gallons at a 1:1.2 (5:6) ratio, and to liters at a
    1:4.55 (20:91) ratio."

    >How's that?
    >
    >Best regards,
    >
    >Ewan
    >
    >-----Original Message-----
    >From: xxxxxx@simplelists.com On Behalf Of Jeff Zeitlin
    >Sent: 19 February 2020 00:10
    >To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com
    >Subject: Re: [TML] TL8 Passenger Cars
    >
    >On Sun, 22 Dec 2019 22:51:01 -0000, wrote:
    >
    >>I know there are a few passenger cars out there for TL8, and Robert
    >>(Dean) did electronic versions of the car and motorcycle as well
    >>(although his costs (probably the batteries) are high), but I wanted
    >>something I could manipulate myself to add the automation in .
    >>
    >>Because it was the autonomous electrical car that I was really after .
    >
    >I was going over these with an eye toward including them in the forthcoming
    >issue of Freelance Traveller, and the fuel capacity and range/duration
    >Simply Didn't Seem Right. I'm working on the assumption that the current TL
    >for the "first world" here is more-or-less TL8 verging on prototype-TL9.
    >
    >If you want to add an explanation of the 'discrepancy' or update the
    >numbers, I can hold them, or I can go ahead and print them as-is (and
    >probably get some feedback along the same lines as my comments below).
    >
    >>Urban Class Passenger Car
    >
    >>CraftID: Urban Class Passenger Car, TL8, Cr 3,910
    >>Hull: 1/1, Displacement=1, Conf=4USL, Armour=2C,
    >> Loaded=5.71 tons, Unloaded=1.034 tons
    >>Power: 1/2, Improved Internal Combustion=0.16 Mw, Duration=12 hours
    >>Loco: 1/2, Wheels=4, P/W=28, Road=119 kph, Offroad=24 kph
    >>Comm: Radio=V Distant (50 km)
    >>Sensors: Headlights x2
    >>Off: Hardpoints=1
    >>Def: DefDM=+2
    >>Control: Panel=Electronic x1,
    >>Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Seats=Cramped x4, Env=basic env
    >>Other: Fuel=0.12 klitres, Cargo=4.557 klitres, ObjSize=Small,
    >EmLevel=Faint
    >>
    >>Cost in Quantity=Cr 3,128
    >
    >Are you sure about the fuel and range/duration? 0.12 kliters is 120 liters,
    >and at roughly 4 liters to 1 gallon, that makes it a 30-gallon gas tank
    >(it's more, actually, as it's really only about 3.8 liters per gallon). A
    >quick google makes an average sedan gas tank about half that (less for
    >hybrids - a variant that you didn't include); even the typical SUV - which
    >is a light truck, not a passenger car (except legally in most
    >jurisdictions), is only about three-quarters of that. With current engine
    >efficiencies, the range for a pure I/C vehicle of the passenger car/light
    >truck class is 300-400 miles (400-600 km), which works out to a duration of
    >5 - 15 hours, depending on speed - but the distance range and fuel
    >efficiency are better measures for a ground vehicle (realistically, 7.8 to
    >5.9 liters/100km [30-40 US MPG]; your figures, range [up to] 1400km [875
    >miles], 8.6 liters/100km [27 US MPG]).
    >
    >The above also applies to the Urban A.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >>Urban E Class Electric Passenger Car
    >
    >>CraftID: Urban E Class Electric Passenger Car, TL8, Cr 10,578
    >>Hull: 1/1, Displacement=1, Conf=4USL, Armour=2C,
    >> Loaded=3.713 tons, Unloaded=0.589 tons
    >>Power: 1/2, Battteries=0.1 Mw, Duration=8 hours
    >>Loco: 1/2, Wheels=4, P/W=27, Road=116 kph, Offroad=23 kph
    >>Comm: Radio=V Distant (50 km)
    >>Sensors: Headlights x2
    >>Off: Hardpoints=1
    >>Def: DefDM=+2
    >>Control: Panel=Electronic x1, Interface=Power
    >>Accom: Crew=1 (Driver), Seats=Cramped x4, Env=basic env
    >>Other: Cargo=3.124klitres, ObjSize=Small, EmLevel=Faint
    >>
    >>Cost in Quantity=Cr 8,462
    >
    >The same comment about range vs. duration applies here; the typical electric
    >car available today has a range of 150-300 miles (250-500 km), with the "no
    >frills" versions being closer to the _low_ end of that (Nissan Leaf, 250km;
    >Tesla 3, 500km).
    >
    >This also applies to the Urban EA.
    >
    >
    >
    >For what it's worth, and for comparison, my 2008 Prius (hybrid) has a
    >12-gallon (45 liter) tank; in highway driving I've gone as much as 550 miles
    >(880 km) on a single tank of gas, and could have made about 600
    >(~1000 km) safely.
    >
    >RTraveller is a registered trademark of
    >Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2020. Use of the trademark in this notice and
    >in the referenced materials is not intended to infringe or devalue the
    >trademark.

    ®Traveller is a registered trademark of
    Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2020. Use of
    the trademark in this notice and in the
    referenced materials is not intended to
    infringe or devalue the trademark.

    --
    Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
    Freelance Traveller
    The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource
    xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com
    http://www.freelancetraveller.com

    Freelance Traveller extends its thanks to the following
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Re: [TML] TL8 PassengerCars by David Jaques-Watson (20 Feb 2020 11:01 UTC)
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    Dear Folks –

     

    Hi Ewan! Have you applied the errata for internal combustion engines?

     

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson ..at.. Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
    http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                    xxxxxx@pcug.org.au
    "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"

     


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