Well, nobody bothered to tell the US forces that the feeling was the British couldn't afford to lose the ship to weather or battle... so it could still be effective.

That's another thing that might come into some nation's construction plan: Build big things that look nasty and flash them around to use the intimidation factor to preclude conflict and thus still achieve the objective. If you planned for that, you might get a nasty surprise, but you also might be able to take shortcuts in construction and save money and still pull it off.

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 11:25 AM Phil Pugliese - philpugliese at yahoo.com (via tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:
I read somewhere that, once that RN 112-gunner was launched,  the USN pretty much abandoned ops on the lake where it was based.

On Thursday, June 4, 2020, 08:19:25 AM MST, <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:

Two other examples:

Vasa (Swedish) went down pretty fast if I recall. https://www.vasamuseet.se/en/vasa-history/disaster

And then there was the most fearsome vessel on the great lakes, built by the British, and harboured in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_St_Lawrence_(1814)
The wiki doesn't do justice to what actually happened though. This big 112-gun ship of the line took so many sailors to man that it impacted other ship's crewing (or lack thereof!). It was also decided that it basically *could not* go to battle because *the risk of losing it was so great and the PR disaster would be so large that it had to be intimidating but not fight*.

Those are both examples of construction projects gone awry because they weren't very well thought out given the larger setting.

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 4:07 AM Phil Pugliese - philpugliese at yahoo.com (via tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:
W/i  the last years I've discovered, from old books, the Royal Navy's, & the entire world's, initial dreadnought (yep, THE Dreadnought herself) was actually quite a design failure with no significant secondary & also, under full load, her main armor belt was below the waterline, rendering the ship very vulnerable to low-angle fire. 

But,  it sure did look COOL, didn't it?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 

On Wednesday, June 3, 2020, 08:44:34 PM MST, xxxxxx@gmail.com <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:


This is interesting. A deniable strike to punish either a greedy noble or a greedy corporation or the like. Nice!

The one thing that would make this even more reasonable as a scenario would be this:

If everyone is in the middle of active fighting, they're going to know very quickly that this omission is a glaring gaff. Hell is going to be raised right then and there.

If, on the other hand, these ships were built in peacetime, and nobody really had figured they'd have to go into main line of battle anytime soon (show the flag, chase pirates, hammer smaller vessels, etc. but no serious fleet actions with similar sized classes), then the shortcoming, while known to the crews, might not be as big of a deal as long as none of the ships of the class got gutted by a hostile combatant.

Then along comes a real fight, bang goes the ship with the scion, and now you have 'the ancient Rite of Canly' as Duke Leto Atreides would have called it.

Something like that might make the omission's existence for a long period sort of 'it ought to be there, but the ship still does okay in its uses' during peacetime followed by.... real fights and real heavy damage or ship losses.

TomB

On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 11:14 PM Ethan McKinney <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
Ken Burnside asked me to post this:

While kvetching about the canonical lack of Meson Screens on certain classes of warships I have to make scenarios around for Squadron Strike: Traveller... I came up with the idea for a campaign arc. I bounced it off of my Traveller line developer (Michael Llaneza) and...
We got this: Justice by Design A doctrinal error by the Imperial Navy has led to the death of a scion of a noble family. The gallant young officer went down fighting in the finest traditions of the Imperial navy, but might have survived victorious if their ship had been equipped with a meson screen. It was supposed to. Despite the master construction plans and bills of material clearly stating “put a Mk8 Meson Screen in this compartment”, those compartments were used for PO berthing on every single vessel in the class equipped for a humaniti-majority crew (Vegan Confederation destroyers of this class used it for a high-humidity rec area). Someone made an ungodly sum of money on this deception. Someone highly placed, able to interfere with the distribution of construction blueprints for a major class of Imperial warship to dozens or hundreds of naval yards.  These people will pay in blood and in the destruction of all their works. The contract specifies seven generations worth of damage. Every effort will be made to provide (deniable) assets as required. You have been offered the job. What do you do?

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