Nice work so far.

Comments below.

On Mon, Jul 6, 2020 at 5:24 PM Timothy Collinson - timothy.collinson at port.ac.uk (via tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:

Some doh! questions from my ignorance:

- is 'bus' the right word?  I'm sort of imagining the main ESS feeding 'big' subsystems (to the right) more directly but the internal and external 'small' electrics through some sort of step down if that's the right expression.

Data bus: Moves bits of information around to other systems.
Electrical distribution bus: Moves charge around to other systems.

Depending on how you want to lay things out, you can have multiple of each in a vehicle.

One reason is to keep different sorts of data separate (like on an airliner where you don't want to have the passenger entertainment bus being the same physical wiring as the flight control bus (and this stupidity has actually been designed into several modern airliners and hackers have actually shown they can go from entertainment bus to flight control). The argument for having them on the same wire, but logically different is that (if someone isn't hacking) they are differentiated and one wire run is cheaper than two.

Multiple power buses will exist for reasons of varying voltage/current loads (you aren't likely to deliver motor power and the power for your microelectronics via the same bus - motor start or high acceleration might well jump the power demand leading to spikes electronics don't love). Also, if you get a short or a spike from something on a bus, everything else on said bus could be at stake, Reason for having only one or two, versus a handfull - cost/simplicity (which is another way of saying cost).


Feel free to be harsh - as I say, I don't really know what I'm doing.

- is a 'Starter' just completely ridiculous?  It seemed like a bit of fun and then I thought, ok, it's not a petrol engine which needs to be turned over electrically at first, but it's a big brute of a system and maybe it needs a little something to get it going?  (Or alternatively: something else to go wrong!)

Are  you using a petrol engine in zero G or in zero P/vacuum? Are you using a combustion engine on a planet that has incompatible atmo - heavy, thick, exotic or insidious, or just plain tainted or maybe just low or too high on O2 partial pressures.... or too much CO2?

Batteries might really make more sense (Musk is looking to build transport trucks with power cells, at TL-9). A small power cell might make sense too (a conversion tool for hydrogen or some other gas that is energetic).

- is the Auxiliary ESS only powering Life Support and 1 other subsystem in an emergency a bit mean?  Is 12 hours too generous?  (Though I think we're in speed of plot territory here).

You'd want to cover:
heater (for cold planets)
cooler (for hot planets)
Atmo systems (whatever you think appropriate)
Comms - short range and long range radios, maybe laser or maser, plus a distress beacon (and it would have a battery backup)
Cabin lights
Door locks if they are electrical and don't have any manual opening options (which they should really)
Any heaters or coolers that prevent the vehicle's fluids from boiling or freezing.

- do ATVs have transponders?  Or artificial gravity?  (perhaps the latter should be saved for a higher tech level)

Transponders: Basic one, probably.
Vehicle Data Recorder: Variable by jurisdiction
AG? What for exactly? Making it more comfortable in high G planets? If so, that better be supported by your Auxilliary ESS too.
If to make you feel less queezy in low-G planets... then not so critical to have Aux ESS support.
To lift the vehicle over crevasses or whatever... not necessary for Aux ESS, but will need some sort of tie in to controls and vehicle sensors to manage largely automated jumps.
https://www.arcadeclassics.net/80s-game-videos/moon-patrol  (watch for the moon buggy jumping crevasses).


- is there a better word than 'outlets'?  I'm thinking of the 'sockets' to plug in your own equipment.  At higher TLs they might not be actual 'sockets' but some kind of charging point like my phone pod charger (induction coil or something???)

I think here most electricians refer to plugs in vernacular (which they are not - they are things plugs are inserted into) but formally by receptacles.

You may well have more than one type of charging port in such a vehicle.
Small ones aboard to charge personal gear (trickle currents) - hand comps, portable sensors, portable comms, etc.
Medium sized ones at the back of the ATV to charge spare life support modules for vacc suits (the power part, maybe also they have tanks of O2/mixed gas to load these modules with too).
Larger ones outside which would facilitate bidirectional access to the ESS(es) for power transfer to additional high power equipment the vehicle can transport and/or to take a boost/power up from the outside world.
I think the medium sized ones could power (slowly) some laser rifles/pistols/carbines or the like.


- I'm imagining that things like the airlock and the life support, in fact all of the subsystems really, would have smaller local control panels near the equipment (or somewhere other than the main control boards 'up front') but this seemed too difficult/tedious to show, is it fair to 'assume' it?

Yes and no. Some things that one is not meant to watch or control (say motors themselves mostly outside) would likely not. There would be an on board diagnostic port or a feed of data to the main data bus. For things like battery charge levels, outside atmo/lights from the lock, turning on and off the outside outlets, etc... yeah, I'd figure there would be switches or panels if a panel was needed.

- I'm trying to reconcile the ATV in JTAS 3 which is what I was picturing with the deck plan in The Traveller Adventure in the corner of the March Harrier deck plans which I've only just remembered exists.  I'm not sure it's possible.  The TTA thing looks much smaller even though it's supposed to be 10 tons still.  Anyone looked at this as an issue?  (Best explanation so far I've come up with: TTA shows the 'brochure' version and JTAS 3 shows the actual ATV.

"Product image may not reflect actual size of product." - I just saw this tonight on a box of frozen croissants (the box had a big croissant pictured, I suspect they are wee ones inside the box).

Also: To what I said above:
Depending on the purchase jurisdiction, more or less safety equipment would be required to be present at time of purchase. Similarly, more or less comms/tracking/autonav/transponder type stuff will be required at time of purchase again based on purchase jurisdiction (unless you get an export only model).
Further, any ATV that's 'been around' could have been up or down modded with various things that prior users felt were necessary or vestigial.
The cost of a model may also dictate the interior fit and finish, the power plant options, any onboard entertainment and computers, even some of the more exotic comms and safety systems.
Also note that your schematics does not allow for any weapons integration or any external sensor integration (like from drones or other exterior sensor packages). Both of those may need antenna systems that link to the data buses.
Also, redundancy beyond the Aux ESS may be more common with higher end/higher quality version of an ATV. That might include duplicate computers or other systems.
If there is one major computer that all the controls and panels feed into, that would be a key thing to represent. The higher the TL of the ATV, the more likely that would be the case. In those cases, most interfaces would just feed data to the main computer and the main computer would feed directions to the subsytems and reflect sensor data back to the various stations.

So, having thrown some things out to think of, I now immediately jump using only my charged jump capacitors!

*POOF!*

TomB


tc









On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 22:04, Timothy Collinson <xxxxxx@port.ac.uk> wrote:
now it looks as if my URL is invisible.

what is its problem?!

(I've tried pasting as unformatted text)

Is this any better?

if not, it should be my last post on @timpaa
tc



On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 22:01, Timothy Collinson <xxxxxx@port.ac.uk> wrote:


On Mon, 6 Jul 2020 at 21:54, Kelly St. Clair <xxxxxx@efn.org> wrote:
The list strips attachments, like your image.  Got a link?


Bother,
I thought I'd very carefully posted an URL to my tweet which I posted because I knew TML didn't like attachments.

is this any better:




--
Timothy Collinson
Faculty Librarian (Technology)
University of Portsmouth
Cambridge Road
Portsmouth
PO1 2ST


--
Timothy Collinson
Faculty Librarian (Technology)
University of Portsmouth
Cambridge Road
Portsmouth
PO1 2ST

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