On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 1:03 AM Ethan McKinney <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
No, the question is about muzzle velocity, not size. Given a constant bore (3cm, 7.5cm, 10cm, etc.), higher velocity will somewhat decrease the effectiveness of the HEAT ammunition.


So are the 'Medium' and 'Large' gun types not bore related in Striker?

I'm not sure if 'Medium' or 'Large' guns are expected to have the same bores or that either are expected to be faster than the default (mortar/low-vel guns) the table expects...

 
Keep in mind that HEAT is a shaped-charge warhead.

I know that, though I always had assumed the 'superplastic jet' was from the armour of the vehicle but it is actually from an internal iron or copper cap.

 

More below.

On Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 18:33 <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
Let me understand this:

Larger gun types, with more payload space in a standard shell, still end up with lesser explosive in HEAT shells compared to a smaller gun type?

One mm and a different warhead type mean less explosive?

Not sure what you mean by "one mm." The table is in cm, and yes, 1cm will make a noticeable difference in penetration (HEAT penetration is roughly linear with shell diameter).

I thought your comparison with the 76mm was against the prior 75mm gun the Americans used. So it wasn't quite a 'same bore' issue, but you get a bigger bore (ever so slightly) and a higher muzzle velocity and that leads to reduced explosive payload...
 

Let me ask the obvious question: If my normal HE was compared to the same 76mm's HEAP/HEAT, should I note expect it to have better penetration than the HE? (I mean, why else would they develop it and call it high explosive anti-tank...)

Yes, but I'm not sure what you're asking. HEAT is completely different from HE in its operation.

What did they have before HEAT? I assume HE is the basis of slow velocity guns (forex: assault guns or artillery). Then along came HEAT. My point is if it is supposed to outperform whatever came before (I just sort of assumed it was some HE but it may have been something else), one would think even in medium velocity guns it would have to outperform what was there before, not so?

That's where I was going with that.

 

I don't know that striker was ever modernized to account for SFF (Self Forging Fragment) or some of the later versions of that which produced rod type penetrating elements after detonation. 

HEAT, which was around long before SFP (Self-Forging Projectile).

Yes, this comment was not directly related to the HEAT discussion. It came up when I read the Wiki page on HEAT rounds. They also had some sort of differentiation between HEAT and HEAP (and some others, like HEDP) but they talked about the more modern HEAT implementation with double and triple charges to defeat layered armours and the self-forging fragment including versions that had longer rod-shaped penetrator and others that have multiple self-forging fragments (which are really bad news for lighter armoured combatants like MICVs/APCs). There is some speculation some of the newer SFFs can be effective against modern MBTs, but there didn't seem to be any obvious data to back that speculation up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-explosive_anti-tank_warhead

I realize I didn't separate that form the other questions but it is only linked by being in that article.

 
SFP isn't used in gun rounds because it has no advantages over HEAT. They also have lower penetrations than HEAT warheads of the same diameter.

Interesting.
 
However, HEAT rounds have a pretty narrow range of stand-off distances for effective penetration. Moving away from the optimal stand-off distance rapidly reduces penetration.

Yes, but I thought some of the multi-charge versions were a bit more capable. Of course, some of them might be in missiles vs. guns - I don't know.
 
In the other hand, SFOs are just that: projectiles. After the explosion forges the projectile, it holds its shape and simply flies along like any other projectile. This make it ideal for use in anti-tank mines set up to fire horizontally (not buried for the tank to run over it).

I've always loved off-route mines.
 
The other uses are in top-attack weapon so, either individual warheads that spiral down, using a sensor to look for targets and detonating when facing the target (this means that you don't have to actually hit the vehicle with a shaped-charge bomblet) or in missiles that pass over the target and detonate a downward-facing warhead.

Well, that's less of a thing once you get grav tanks for sure... all sides kind of need similar armour values as you can depend on more shots at your belly, back deck, or rear.

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