Reminds me of some of the stories I've heard about GenPatton.

One story had him deliberately but obliquely  insulting Ike when Ike was the c-in-c!

Of course Patton was from an earlier class at West Point so naturally he felt he should be senior.

Also, I'm sure there were many that resented Ike's rapid rise.
When he returned from the Philippines after falling out with MacArthur (he was his aide), Ike was only a major!
With over THIRTY YEARS of active duty!

p.s. just imagine if Ike had been trapped in the Philippines after Pearl Harbor. Of course he might have been evac'ed by sub along w/ MacArthur but who knows?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Thursday, July 30, 2020, 08:41:23 AM MST, xxxxxx@gmail.com <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:


My point was meant to be that egos dominate higher echelons. Those clashes often become more overblown than one would expect to the point of intentional insults, avoidance and what normal folk would call obstruction and childish behaviour. I believe the big egos see it as demonstrating who holds the power.

That was true in the Ancient period, the Napoleonic period, WWI, and up to today.

T.

On Wed, Jul 29, 2020, 23:20 Phil Pugliese - philpugliese at yahoo.com (via tml list), <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:
I've also read that one of the reasons that the ancient monastery at Monte Cassino was destroyed was that the commander of the NewZealand forces believed that it HAD to be destroyed &  so he spoke to his PrimeMinister who then spoke to Churchill, who then spoke to.... well you get the idea...

I've also read a number of different versions of who the 'first troops into Paris' really were & how it came to be.

Still, I did use the word 'liaise'. It doesn't, AFAIK, carry any intimations of commanding as in,
"Say Marechal Foch, here is the new liaison 'tween your forces and mine. You'll be taking orders from him from now on!" 
Obviously, NOT what I meant.

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On Monday, July 27, 2020, 10:33:08 AM MST, <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:


Example:

Canadian Troops could have been (and actually were, unofficially) the first troops into Rome but it was important for optics that the US General get there first....

And lots of times, support was not provided in a timely manner by one ally or the other due to some issues that boiled down to 'commander's ego'....

On Mon, Jul 27, 2020 at 6:17 AM Jeff Zeitlin <xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com> wrote:
Oh, unquestionably. But _never_ underestimate the power of national pride
to throw a wrench into the works. It's not generally something that's
focussed on, but if you read some of the detailed histories of some WWII
Allied operations, you'll see that some of them might have been derailed if
one ally or the other hadn't backed off from insisting that one of _their_
generals be in overall command.

On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 02:58:03 +0000 (UTC), "Phil Pugliese" wrote:

> Oh c'mon, there was a WAR going on after all!
>I think a way would have been found to communicate!
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    On Tuesday, July 21, 2020, 03:27:08 AM MST, Jeff Zeitlin <xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com> wrote: 
>
> On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 08:11:15 +0000 (UTC), "Phil Pugliese wrote:
>
>>Also, in either war the Quebecois(sp?) would come in handy to liaise w/ the allied French forces.
>
>Yes, you spelled "Quebecois" correctly modulo accents - but I question how
>"handy" they'd be for French liaison; by reputation, neither one thinks the
>other speaks "real" French, and Parisians further have a reputation for
>looking down their noses and ignoring you if your French isn't Absolutely
>Perfect As Defined By The Academy.
>
>
>
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