On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:26 PM Christopher Sean Hilton <xxxxxx@vindaloo.com> wrote:

  I've found that the book 6 rules need to be
seriously tweaked if you want to get interesting systems or I haven't
read them correctly. Specifically, there are large negative DMs that
apply to world size and orbit count for spectral class M stars and
spectral class M will be the majority of stars that you see. The
result is if you used the Book 6 extended ruleset to generate the
Imperium, most citizens would live in domed cities or man made caves
on vacuum and near vacuum worlds.

I've done a fair bit of generating in World Builders and World Tamers books too and my conclusion is that the closer you get to realistic systems, the fewer even vaguely habitable possibility.

The Book 3 basic generator generates a vast number of fairly habitable worlds in a way that the real universe probably does not.

One way to solve this (and it seems likely to be the approach I take is to decouple physical geography from the expanse of interstellar empires. Using some sort of 'travel web' or 'gate system' or 'hyperspace with limits on where you can go', you only ever go to the places that are at least somewhat habitable or are resource rich (99% of the time). A node-graph allows you to establish closely connected worlds which are, in the real universe we live in, far apart in light years. It allows empires to exist across vaster distances in realspace (closer by jump) without requiring details of every body along the way nor forcing players to visit rock after rock after empty system after... yeah you see where I'm going.


> tl;dr: we are no longer bound by paper and dice.
>

Whatever ruleset your generator uses, the most important features from
the overall system are:

Small nitpick: All those features ONLY matter if you also have a decent content generation system. They are co-equal in importance.

 

* The ability to efficiently store and retrieve generated systems in
  whole or in pieces at an arbitrary level of detail

- database with some careful layout
- interface to do the pulling

* The ability to search all of the systems for worlds that match an
  arbitrary criteria

- decent search engine (easy one for nerds is an query interface in SQL, but easy ones for regular humans tends to constrain what can be searched)
- that said, Traveller Map as an example has some pretty good options for partitioning and visually denoting various things one would like to know (+1 Imperium to the creator!)


* As stated in either this post or another, the ability to modify
  aspects of a system and then re-calculate the effects of your
  change

- Yes, this. This is a bit of a minefield given interrelationships, but it is probably worth a fair amount of work to make useful

* The ability to attach detailed notes to a system at two
  levels, as a minimum: player and referee

- Agree.

let me add:
* Should be able to represent stats/notes/etc in different eras/dates

The overall purpose of any such system should be to focus and
*enhance* the communal imagination of the players and the
referees.

That's a key part.
 
Enough computer power exists today that we no longer have to
be bound by paper and dice. But if the presence of large amounts of
stored detail detracts from gameplay by limiting the communal imagination
pool, then it's better to play by paper and dice without detailed
storage systems for the setting.

Yes, sometimes a tool is actively unhelpful.

Most Traveller maps online of all descriptions and the generators coupled to maps (H&E, Galactic, Universe, works by Hugh Foster aka "Ace and the Dog" etc) have been pretty good efforts by the standards of their day (some are current).

Would like to add another concept:
* Open source ideally
* Separate entirely presentation and various segments of generation (physical system generation, population (people/animals/aliens) generation, layout of travel pathing (routes, mains), trade) so that each of these major areas can be replaced with drop in modules (via interface(s)) so as to allow someone who can and would want to drop their own in
* Proper documentation
* Allow the modelling of trade eventually
* Plug-in replacement (via interfaces or the like) for system and system body generation as well as population generation with all its demographics and key measures
* Calculators for travel distances and other map-related tasks (jump and in-system) which would have an interface to replace the calculation.

If I was to look at what was to be represented:

* System locations
* Possibly multiple types of 'spatial' representation (real space geography, or others sorts of maps for universes that use node graphs, 3D space etc)
* System contents with a wide view (including various sorts of bodies, stars, populations, but also including
-> Atmo: pressure overall, gases, partial pressures of gases, contaminants
-> Hydrosphere: Water or other fluids, amounts, states (frozen, liquid, gas only), taints
-> Radiation/Albedo/EM field: How much radiation arrives and how well is it buffered by the atmosphere? (What risks exist in orbit or on the ground?)
-> Gravity: I suppose density is thus important (core type too) but gravity is pretty critica
-> Temperature: can't be too hot or too cold or too swingy
-> Accessibility of key human needs: Includes atmo gases, accessible water, reasonable temp, radiation, gravity, partial pressures of gases, limits to taints/hazards
* Generate planets, moons, belts, etc
* Options to generate populations (this is the biggest one in some ways because it could be the most variable)
-> Represent minor races
-> Represent heavily balkanized system bodies




--
Chris

     __o          "All I was trying to do was get home from work."
   _`\<,_           -Rosa Parks
___(*)/_(*)_____________________________________________________________
Christopher Sean Hilton                    [chris/at/vindaloo/dot/com]
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