On 10/12/2020 1:47 PM xxxxxx@gmail.com wrote:

The info is sketchy as the time makes no reference to water volume or the rate your purifiers.

The reference I provided from MT Imperial Encyclopedia was an attempt to answer the following " I'm curious what ocean refueling means... am I floating my ship? Or am I hovering on grav and just letting a big vacuum tube down? Can I land on a nice sandy beach and suck from the lagoon?

The answer was you can either float on the surface of the ocean or land on the beach. In the past I cited only part of text and someone else mentioned that I failed to provide complete information. The second sentence is, in my opinion, part and parcel with the description of how ocean refueling is conducted.

I have no idea why the author did not repeat the information on MT Referee's Manual p. 83 or reference the page.

Looking at MT Referee's Manual p. 83 10 Fuel 3 Fuel Purification Plant notes: "Values shown are per kiloliter of fuel per 6 hours. One complete fuel purification plant,installed on the basis of the total ship's fuel capacity, will purify the tanks in 6 hours; a plant installed in the basis of half the ship's fuel capacity will purify all of the fuel in the tanks in 12 hours."

By-passing the fuel purification plant and filling the tanks directly with water I believe reduce the time needed to fill the tanks.

MT Starships Operator's Manual Vol. I is the only reference I have at hand the provides details on the the fuel system which is found on pp. 15-17. The Fuel Section is on pp. 15-16 and a diagram is shown on p. 16

Fuel Scoops: The fuel scoops allow the starship to perform wilderness refueling by skimming a gas giant's atmosphere. When the vessel swoops down into the gas giants atmosphere, the atmospheric gases are pushed into the ship through the fuel scoops.

Purification plant: Once raw fuel has been taken into the ship, whether from a gas giant or a water ocean, it must be purified into hydrogen and stored in the fuel tank.

Aux Fuel In/Out: The auxiliary fuel in/out connection is the standard fuel intake used during routine refueling at a starport. This intake is also the standard input point for ocean water gathered during ocean refueling. Starport fuel typically goes straight to the fuel tank (unless it is unrefined), while ocean water must first be routed through the purification plant for conversion into hydrogen.

Pump: The pump is the central routing unit in the fuel going in and out of the fuel system.

Fuel Tank: The fuel "tank" is actually a series of separate interconnected compartments for storing both raw and refined fuel.

Waste: During the refinement process, any unusable waste by-products from the fuel purification plant are dumped from the ship via the waste line.

The diagram on p. 17 has a line with a single arrow going from the fuel scoops to the purification plant. The purification plant has a single line going to the pump which has two arrows one pointing at the plant and the other at the pump. The pump has a single line with two arrows, one pointed at the pump the other pointed at Aux Fuel In/Out and another single line with two arrows, one pointing to the pump the other pointing to the fuel tank. The pump also has a line with a single arrow pointing at the power plant. The diagram shows a second pump which I believe is going to the jump drive diagram on p. 9.

The description in MT Starships Operator's Manual Vol. I is similar to what I thought the fuel system layout.

Based on the available information bypassing the purification plant and using the Aux fuel in/out connection and the pump the time should be less. Of course I have not done the calculations so I could be wrong.

I call that answering a question quick and simple and in a way that invites more questions...

Yes, my answer to "Well, that seems to imply that water water can actually be fed directly into a starships J-drive system, doesn't it?" was quick and simple, based on only the wording of unrefined fuel and that the decision made by Rupert in his TU of not allowing water to be used directly as jump drive fuel.

However, with the research I did above I will have to agree that water can not be used directly as jump fuel.

On Mon, Oct 12, 2020, 16:26 Thomas RUX, < xxxxxx@comcast.net> wrote:

Hello Phil,

On 10/12/2020 11:48 AM Phil Pugliese - philpugliese at yahoo.com (via tml list) < xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:

On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 10:49:54 AM MST, Thomas RUX <xxxxxx@comcast.net> wrote:

Morning from Roy, WA Rupert and kaladorn,

> On 10/11/2020 12:05 AM Rupert Boleyn < xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 11Oct2020 1939, xxxxxx@gmail.com wrote:
> > 10 hours is more like what I'd have thought. In MT, you could probably
> > (unless the task was invariant in some way) be able to take a cautious
> > approach, drop difficulty to Easy (3+) and just take 20 hours. Given
> > MT's higher skill levels as a rule, Routine isn't all that dangerous
> > and you aren't going to easily score an exceptional failure even at
> > Routine.
> At routine (7+) and a half-decent flight team (I'd allow pilot and
> astrogator to work together to use the best in each skill) for say a
> total of +3, you need a 4+ (though that does still leave 2 as an
> exceptional failure). The problem is that it's hazardous, so that
> snake-eyes messes you up no matter what.
> >
> > I'm curious what ocean refueling means... am I floating my ship? Or am
> > I hovering on grav and just letting a big vacuum tube down? Can I
> > land on a nice sandy beach and suck from the lagoon? How about an
> > inland freshwater lake? Or even (scandal) someone's remote reservoir?
> > And there's not exactly much to say about the effects of taints, the
> > odds of sucking up flaura, fauna or soils/bacteria, etc.
> I'd assume you're floating, or parked on a beach. Hovering would be
> /possibl//e/ in a ship with contragrav, but probably hard on the systems
> and asking for 'exciting' mishaps if things go bad. As for contaminants,
> that's when interesting taints, sea monsters getting jammed in the pump
> intakes, and so on, come into play.

MT Imperial Encyclopedia (Book3?) p. 88 "...The process" of ocean refueling "calls for a ship to land in or near an ocean and fill its tanks from the local water supply. It takes approximately four hours and results in fuel tanks filled with unrefined fuel...."

Tom Rux

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, that seems to imply that water water can actually be fed directly into a starships J-drive system, doesn't it?

From the information provided I would say yes, however as Rupert pointed out in his TU the answer is no.

Tom Rux

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