Hello Craig Berry,My apologies for tossing around definitions. I was trying to find some way to clearly state my concept of the word "adventure" which is why I quoted from The American Heritage Dictionary.I am hoping that one of the sources I supplied is more acceptable than The American Heritage Dictionary.I agree that during an event or events you do not think about it as being an adventure, but sometime down the road the event becomes an adventure.I pretty much agree with the rest of the comments too and I will try avoid the use of definitions in the future.Respectfully,Tom R
From: "Craig Berry" <xxxxxx@gmail.com>
To: "TML" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 4:33:39 PM
Subject: Re: [TML]Tracking spaceships inJump TU, was: Instantcity
Tossing definitions around is seldom persuasive. :>I think the key realization is that, in real life, something that was unpleasant and scary at the time can *become* an adventure in retrospect. The key is that, as a memory, you can see the whole sequence, which makes it possible to express it as a narrative, complete with foreshadowing ("If only I'd thought then to put the jack back in the trunk...") and other narrative tropes. A sequence of events becomes a narrative, with a setup, progress, a climax, and some sort of resolution. Most importantly, from the viewpoint of memory, you know you survived, and how bad any lasting damage was -- at the time, the stakes may have been terrifyingly high.So e.g. I've gotten many hours of enjoyment (and enjoyment from my listeners) retelling the story of an attempt to climb a desert mountain that I made decades ago, in which a sudden thunderstorm tried to kill me in several terrifying ways during the course of an afternoon and evening. At the time, I rightly feared for my life, and would have given a huge sum of money to be anywhere else. In retrospect, it was an adventure.A role-playing game combines the in-the-moment aspects of a difficult, dangerous situation with the knowledge that the real-world stakes cannot possibly rise higher than losing a fictional character you've become attached to. It allows the players to short-circuit the "terrifying now, adventure later" dichotomy, achieving some measure of "adventure now". And it even has that aspect of narrative integrity, thanks to the GM. The whole thing is rather amazing when you think about it. I'm glad this discussion has made me think about it.
On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 4:15 PM, <tmr0195@comcast.net> wrote:
Hello Greg Chalik,Since you do not care for the American Heritage Dictionary here are links to online sources that might meet your standardshttp://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/adventure
The following are copy and paste from http://www.thefreedictionary/adventure
adventure
(ədˈvɛntʃə)
n
1. a risky undertaking of unknown outcome2. an exciting or unexpected event or course of events
3. a hazardous financial operation; commercial speculation
4. obsolete
a. danger or misadventureb. chance
vb
5. to take a risk or put at risk6. (foll by: into, on, upon) to dare to go or enter (into a place, dangerous activity, etc)
7. to dare to say (something): he adventured his opinion.
[C13: aventure (later altered to adventure after the Latin spelling), via Old French ultimately from Latin advenīre to happen to (someone), arrive]
adˈventureful adj
Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014
ad•ven•ture
(ædˈvɛn tʃər)n., v. -tured, -tur•ing. n.
1. an exciting or very unusual experience.2. participation in exciting undertakings or enterprises: the spirit of adventure.
3. a bold, uncertain, and usu. risky undertaking.
4. a commercial or financial speculation; venture.
v.t.
5. to risk or hazard.6. to take the chance of; dare.
v.i.
7. to take the risk involved.8. to speculate; venture.
[1200–50; < Anglo-French, Old French < Vulgar Latin *adventūra what must happen, feminine (orig. neuter pl.) of Latin adventūrus future participle of advenīre to arrive. See advent, -ure]
Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved.
From what I can see all of the above agree with The American Heritage Dictionary I used to define adventure.
Tom R
From: "Greg Chalik" <mrg3105@gmail.com>
To: "TML" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2016 12:55:47 AM
Subject: Re: [TML]Tracking spaceships inJump TU, was: Instantcity
On 18/02/2016 5:09 PM, "Richard Aiken" <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Since I agree with the other poster upthread that you are a certain type of equine creature, I can not believe I am actually answering you, but here goes [probably literally since you will be too obtuse to understand it] nothing . . .
>
Don't care what you believe, or not, since all beliefs are falsifiable.> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:43 PM, Greg Chalik <mrg3105@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You call your father's wartime service 'adventure'?
>
>
> You are totally and completely missing the point of the definition of "adventure" which was given to you earlier.
>
I don't care for the American Heritage Dictionary.> Allow me re-write it a bit, to allow for you impaired perception.
>
All perceptions are impaired until supported by evidence.> When Bad Stuff happens to YOU in REAL LIFE (the person would be the reader of the story or the player of the game), then it's a disaster.
>
Not as far as I'm concerned.> When the EXACT SAME Bad Stuff happens to "someone else far, far away" - especially if it takes place in a fictional setting - it's an adventure.
>
If its fictional, it didn't happen. If it happens to someone else, its a news story. I don't worry about anything outside my influence.> If I were reading about the service in question as a tale told about persons unknown to me, said service would be an adventure. Hearing it reluctantly told to the adult me by my father - minus the humorous incidents which were all he told me about his war service as a child growing up - it was very much NOT an adventure. It was instead a horror story.
>>
>> Maintenance is all SOPs,
>
> IT IS NOT AND WAS NOT.
>
> The type of frontline wartime maintenance my father helped conduct was potentially LETHAL, even if he was not being actively shot at.
>
> There was the time someone failed to properly secure the elevation spring on the 40mm AA mount he was working on . . .I.e. someone failed to perform the appropriate SOP
and just AFTER he stepped off of the firing platform, there was an enormous "WWWHHHRRUUUNG!!!!!!" and THE ENTIRE MOUNT (over a TON of machined steel) flipped end over end into the air, then vanished into the ocean alongside with a mighty splash.
>
Ok> There was also the time that a 5 inch deck mount got a LIVE HIGH-EXPLOSIVE ROUND stuck halfway down it's overheated barrel.
The weapon failed to function as designed because someone neglected to monitor its critical performance parameters vs those spesified by the design, I.e. failed SOP.
The approved SOP was to disassemble the weapon, remove the barrel and then carefully disassemble the round using special long-handled tools, while inside a bombproof shelter. This was IMPOSSIBLE in the circumstances. The destroyer was needed back in action ASAP. So my Dad was detailed to hold a hollow steel pipe around the detonator cap on the end of the round, while a senior PO used a SLEDGEHAMMER to drive the stuck round back down to the breach.
>>Its the plan B SOP :-) from the Improvised SOPs manual.
>> and dealing with flooding and rescue also forms part of crew training.
>
>
> THERE WAS NO RESCUE.
>
> It was remains recovery and damage repair.
>
> Not even the actual burial details practice with real bloated dead bodies.
>>Never the less its all written down somewhere, and someone, though perhaps not your father, was trained in it.
>> No one looks for getting into such an event.
>
> YES THEY DO.
>
> When one joins the NAVY - especially the submarine service of which Tom Rux was a part - one is aware that if the ship sinks (whether from enemy action, bad weather or simple accident) EVERYONE is very likely to DIE.
>No they don't. No one joins any navy to die. There is that possibility given the profession, but it isn't the intent. Tom was trained in the procedure to escape from a sub. May not always be possible, but the SOP is there. All submarines are designed to enable this at least when possible.
An 'adventure' is a course of action taken INTENTIONALLY, and it seems in Traveller games, one should expect to die an interesting death.
> The various U.S. military services are currently losing more personnel to accidents than to direct enemy action, even though we are involved in two (2) conflicts.
>Accidents? I actually followed most of these during the Iraq deployment from 2003 onwards, and US DoD published investigative findings for many. Most were due to human error in failing to adhere to correct procedures. Just over 2,800 if my memory serves me.
> While I am aware that you have never served in the military (so you really are an equine animal for presuming to lecture those who have about the military), haven't you ever watched a recruiting commercial? The military SELLS ITSELF as an adventure.
>>Yes, the US military services. They also sell on free education, tax breaks, discounted loans, etc. Had a friend heading US Army recruiting company in PA.
>> I had an uncle cptn 2nd rank, who was assigned shore battery, where he died commanding. I bet that was no adventure.
>
>
> Not sure what a "cptn 2nd rank" is/was. Do you mean a captain in the reserves?Soviet Navy
If he was assigned to a shore battery in the continental U.S., then the fact that he died while commanding it means he probably didn't die from enemy action.
Defence of Sevastopol 1941
So it would not have been an adventure, even for someone reading about it who didn't know him. However, if the death had been in combat, then for someone NOT your uncle, his death might have counted as an adventure.
>Yeh, for people in the USA c.Nov.1941 it was an 'adventure', right?
> As the definition says, it's only an adventure when it happens to someone else. When it happens to YOU or YOURS, it's a disaster.
>American Heritage Dictionary sucks.
Cheers
Greg
> --
> Richard Aiken
>
> "Never insult anyone by accident." Robert A. Heinlein
> "I studied the Koran a great deal. I came away from that study with the conviction there have been few religions in the world as deadly to men as Muhammed." Alexis de Tocqueville (1843)
> "We know a little about a lot of things; just enough to make us dangerous." Dean Winchester
> "It has been my experience that a gun doesn't care who pulls its trigger." Newton Knight (as portrayed by Matthew McConaughey), to a scoffing Confederate tax collector facing the weapons held by Knight's young children and wife.
>
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