On 18/05/2016 4:03 AM, "Joseph Paul" <xxxxxx@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
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> On 5/16/2016 2:19 PM, Grimmund wrote:
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>> Air support is almost certainly going to be more expensive than a single $40k munition.
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> JP wrote - How many $40.000.00 rounds does it take to pay for a battery of artillery to be on call in theater 24/7? I am betting quite a few.
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Deployed force structure is not based on costs expressed in consumables.
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>>>>> A cheaper idea is to mount a laser reformatory on the drone and use conventional munitions to engage.
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>>>>> $40k IMHO is too expensive a 'consumable' for infantry, particularly on foot.
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>>>> Half the price of a Javelin, 2.5x the cost of a SMAW.  Slightly less than the cost of an hour of flight time for an F-15, with a wait time of zero minutes.
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>>> ​This is why infantry like to work alongside tanks. Combined Arms.
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>> Infantry like having tanks because having a heavily armored 120mm for direct support is handy.  And tanks draw fire away from the infantry.
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> JP wrote - Again how many $40,000.00 rounds can you buy with the cost of purchasing a platoon of M1A2s and keeping them in the field? 2102 costs of 8.58 million per tank x 4= 34.32 million/40.0000.00 = 858 of those little buggers. And that doesn't include fuel, ammo, crew training and pay, or all the other add-on maintenance units that need to be paid for as well.
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Again, nor is a deployed force structure assembled based on opportunity costs.
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>>> The modern tank HE ​ammo is ~$100 ea.
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>> Source?  What little data I can find suggests M830A1 HEAT rounds are about $5k each.
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> JP wrote -Yeah I am not seeing a  straight-up dead simple HE round for the M256 gun that the US was stocking and work on a multi-purpose round (to replace *4* rounds) began in 2015 so the cost on that is going to be way over $100.00 or even $1000.00 per round.
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Ok, when I get home I will try to find a source for the costing. Everything made for the US DoD is more expensive, but tank HE ammunition is the most basic ammunition there is, and the only difference to manufacturing it from artillery ammunition is the calibre since there is no artillery ordnance in the 120mm.
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>> Dan
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>> --
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>> "Any sufficiently advanced parody is indistinguishable from a genuine kook." -Alan Morgan
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> ObTrav - Even with ridiculously cheap power to transport forces across the Imperium it may be that the smart money is on being able to ditch heavy vehicles in favor of more men on the ground with man-portable (or at least lighter vehicle portable) munitions that pack a wallop. You can then afford to transport more 'Tail' for your 'teeth' to use. If you have a TL advantage it may be best to just ship infantry and a bare minimum of supporting Arty and Armor if orbital space can be controlled and ortillery is cheap to use.
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The employment of lower TL troops in Traveller is quite an interesting subject in its own right given availability of combat robotic platforms.

In general, a force that has ortillery will have access to TL12 and higher platforms, so logistics start to decrease in meaningful impact because the operating principal in expeditionary warfare, even in Space, is that it is expeditious.

If the aim of the military deployment is not an expeditionary strike, then ortillery is less useful for occupational duties because IMHO it pack too much destructive punch to the real estate.

Sentient combat troops are better at warfare where lots of independent decision making is required on constant basis in complex environments, such as an COIN in urban demographic. Robots do better in conventional 1st & 2nd World wars type rural Terrain warfare.

The problem one gets is players deploying odd bits of higher TL equipment which become something of a 'magic' factor.

And then there are race-specific warfare issues that CT doesn't really deal with.

Cheers

Greg
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