I Still Need A Term... Jeff Zeitlin (17 Mar 2019 01:28 UTC)
Re: [TML] I Still Need A Term... Alan Peery (17 Mar 2019 14:13 UTC)
Re: [TML] I Still Need A Term... Phil Pugliese (17 Mar 2019 19:18 UTC)
Re: [TML] I Still Need A Term... shadow@xxxxxx (30 Mar 2019 04:26 UTC)

Re: [TML] I Still Need A Term... Alan Peery 17 Mar 2019 14:13 UTC

I think you're having difficulty finding a role because one person
almost never performs all those roles.  Firstly due to time and aging
(as what you've sketched covers a large section of the scion's life)
even if the person is willing to dedicate their full life to the scion
the likelihood of talent and appropriate age is not high.

Secondly, the roles you've sketched across this arc require different
talents and desires.  Someone who has the patience to help a teenager
learn form their mistakes may very well want to continue doing that with
the younger siblings and cousins. Someone  might be best able to help
with selecting and managing as an advisor may have little interest in
teaching the children of the family to sail, even if it is part of the
family legacy.

Alan

On 17/03/2019 01:27, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:
> Warning: _Long_ post.
>
> Back about a year ago, I'd written:
>
>> I need a term for a person who is in the belowdescribed relationship with a
>> scion of a noble or wealthy-and-socially-prominent line:
>> ["the person" below refers to the person for whom I am seeking a term.
>> "the scion" is the individual of noble blood who is the 'principal' in
>> the relationship]
>> When the scion is young, and perhaps still in school (even before
>> majority), the person serves as a bodyguard, advisor, and tutor, but
>> most of the learning that the person imparts is that of experience,
>> rather than pure academics - he will allow his charge to get into
>> trouble, and then *assist* him in getting back out, while explaining
>> how the trouble came about and how it could have been avoided.
>> Bodyguarding is not protecting him from *all* harm, but from threats
>> that could impact the Family - if the scion provokes a bully, the
>> person will not prevent the scion from having to take his lumps - but
>> will tend any wounds afterward, and will offer to teach self-defense
>> and non-provocation (where appropriate).
>> As the scion gets older and more mature, the person will continue in
>> all the roles described, but shifting more toward an advisor role, and
>> gradually adding the role of 'facilitator' - when the scion moves to
>> do something that this person sees as beneficial to the Family, he
>> will do what he can - subtly - to promote the activity and elicit
>> cooperation from others. In the advisory role, even if the scion is
>> proposing to do "the right thing", whether by ethics, morals, Family
>> benefit, etc., the person may argue against it, to get the person to
>> clearly realize his own reasons for doing/proposing it.
>> It is likely that the scion will come to view the person as a
>> 'friend', though never as a 'lackey' - even though the scion has the
>> 'social advantage' (i.e., higher status), the nonpublic relationship
>> is far more equal, and quite often, the scion will specifically turn
>> to the person for advice. Equally, the person will involved with the
>> hiring of the scion's personal staff, and will often guide new staff
>> members in their understanding and response to the business/social
>> needs of the scion.
>> [For those of you who have read the Jao Empire series by Eric Flint,
>> K.D.Wentworth, and David Carrico, the Jao word for the role is
>> 'fraghta'. I want to more-or-less have this role available in a
>> generic Traveller universe - but I don't want to use the Jao word for
>> it; I'd like a human word. In any language.]
> Several terms were proposed, none of which were _quite_ what I was looking
> for; I'd commented on them as follows:
>
>> I'm going to take this opportunity to discuss - briefly - the problems
>> I see with many other suggestions. In general, the suggestions tended
>> to have meanings or associations that were too specific in some way:
>> Sensei -      In general, a 'sensei' is perceived as a trainer in what
>>               are commonly called "martial arts", and specifically the
>>               "oriental" subset: judo, karate, aikido, jiu-jitsu, and
>>               the like. The general advisor role, and the facilitator
>>               role, are definitely well outside the normal perception
>>               attached to the word 'sensei'.
>> Swordmaster - Without having encountered this term previously, a quick
>>               google argues against this as being appropriate for the
>>               role as described, for essentially the same reasons as
>>               'sensei' - the focus is on the combat training, and this
>>               is _not_ what the Jao /fraghta/'s principal role is,
>>               though they may take it on early in the Jao
>>               "principal's" life.
>> Mentor -      probably the best suggestion so far, but doesn't "feel"
>>               right; the public part of the relationship has the
>>               /fraghta/ being "part of the 'principal's' staff", or
>>               maybe 'chief of staff', and I just don't see a "mentor"
>>               being in that role - the opposite would be more likely,
>>               I would think - that is, the 'principal' is the mentor's
>>               chief of staff as his last "relationship" before they
>>               separate and the 'principal' goes on his own.
>> "Jeeves", Valet, "Gentleman's Gentleman" - Different ways, more or
>>               less, of saying the same thing. Almost works,
>>               conceptually, except that the /fraghta/ isn't really a
>>               personal servant the way these terms imply.
>> Batman -      No, not Bruce Wayne. Alfred might be closer. But the
>>               problems here are first the advisory role, which, while
>>               it might exist, is strongly downplayed in the general
>>               perception of the role, and second, the personal servant
>>               part of the 'batman' definition.
>>               That said, there _is_ a military relationship that just
>>               might possibly be a good match: There's no defined term
>>               for it that I'm aware of, but the crusty old career
>>               sergeant really does more-or-less act as /fraghta/ to
>>               the wet-behind-the-ears butterbar whose commission is
>>               still so new it squeaks.
>> Sifu -        Better than 'Sensei', but still tends to carry
>>               implications of specialization and/or of martial arts.
>>               Similarly, 'guru', with the special focus being
>>               spiritual philosophy.
>> Squire -      Almost the exact opposite of the desired relationship.
>>               The squire is there to be advised and taught by the
>>               principal, and is generally younger and less experienced
>>               than the principal.
>> Pedagogue, Tutor, Proctor, Didact - Perception here would be too
>>               focussed on 'book learning', not on learning-by-
>>               experience with the /fraghta/ mostly in the background.
>>               There's also the evolving role of the /fraghta/, and
>>               none of these words really cover that.
> I should note that 'Tutor' in an older sense wouldn't be completely
> inappropriate; when it was common for a family to send out an adolescent
> scion on a 'Grand Tour', it would be with a 'tutor', who would actually act
> very much as a /fraghta/. However, the tutor's service in this role was
> very much temporary; a /fraghta/ is essentially permanent - if a /fraghta/
> resigns for any reason other than personal incapacity, or is recalled by
> the family/clan for any reason, it reflects poorly - VERY poorly - on the
> scion (for example, if the heir-apparent has their /fraghta/ withdrawn (or
> the /fraghta/ resigns), it is essentially a statement that the
> heir-apparent is utterly unqualified to inherit).
>
>> Consigliere - Another close one. May have problems because of the
>>               political overtones, but if it can be used for the
>>               'chief of staff', as opposed to the Prime Minister, it
>>               might be the best suggestion yet, even though it misses
>>               the bodyguard and teacher roles.
>> Honestly, the best word I have so far is /fraghta/, but there are
>> Reasons that I will not use it at present.
> I'm still looking for a good term; others that have been suggested, and
> what I perceive as their weaknesses:
>
> Chaperone, Duenna - There isn't a perception that these include the
>                facilitation, advisory, or training/education roles that are
>                included in the original /fraghta/. There's also the idea
>                that the chaperone/duenna is supposed to keep their charge
>                out of trouble, rather than allowing it to happen, but
>                keeping it from damaging the _family_, and then using it as a
>                lesson to the scion.
>
> Coryphaeus -  I like this word; it's just not right for this role. It's
>                more appropriate for the role of the 'public face' of e.g., a
>                political party in a legislature or parliament. The /fraghta/
>                isn't the speaker for/public face of the scion.
>
> Craig, Petra, Rock, etc. - There's something to be said for this as a
>                characterisation of _part_ of the /fraghta/'s early role;
>                what the scion learns from the /fraghta/ is in effect a
>                foundation for his (the scion's) later role in society.
>                However, even though the scion will rely on the /fraghta/ for
>                as long as the /fraghta/ is in his service, the role does in
>                fact evolve away from this aspect, and more toward 'chief of
>                staff', for which 'rock' isn't really an appropriate
>                characterisation.
>
> Caretaker, Custodian, Tender - These terms make it seem like the scion is
>                nothing more than a job to the /fraghta/, but the reality is
>                that neither the scion nor the /fraghta/ see it that way; the
>                /fraghta/ is actually more than friend, but less than family.
>
> Subintendant (as opposed to superintendant), Infraintendant - Both of these
>               seem to be coined words, but looking up the role of
>               'intendant' makes these seem inappropriate for the role; the
>               /fraghta/ is not primarily an administrative _overseer_, as
>               'intendant' seems to be.
>
> Nurturer, Lifemother (as opposed to birthmother), Nanny, Governess - All of
>               these seem to imply a relationship that is more personal than
>               the role actually is, and one that does not include the
>               'school of hard knocks' lessons.
>
> Sculptor -   Somewhat the same objection as 'rock'.
>
> Majordomo, Steward, Reeve - Where 'Valet' was _too_ personal a role, these
>               words imply a role that is _less_ personal than the /fraghta/.
>
> Factotum -   Certainly not an inaccurate word for the role; I would say
>               that a /fraghta/ is a _specific kind_ of factotum, somewhere
>               between a valet and a majordomo.
>
>
> It's interesting that someone had started with 'mentat', based on the
> /Dune/ series; some comments disposing of it as a valid idea had the /Dune/
> mentat "able to see the fluctuating paths of the future" - which has some
> resonance in the Jao concept of 'flow' (or the Ekhat perception of the
> /Ekha/).
>
> Would the role of /fraghta/, by whatever name, actually be more common
> among Aslan than among humans? Among Aslan, would it actually be a paired
> role, one male, one female? Would some human cultures be more likely to
> have it than others? Which ones?
>
> Note: Baen has revamped their website since this topic was last active; the
> URL in that thread for the books from which this idea arises may or may not
> be valid. A definitely-valid URL for them is
> https://www.baen.com/allbooks/category/index/id/2159,1972
>
> ®Traveller is a registered trademark of
> Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2018. Use of
> the trademark in this notice and in the
> referenced materials is not intended to
> infringe or devalue the trademark.
>