On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 06:05:23 +0000 (UTC), "Phil Pugliese - philpugliese at
yahoo.com (via tml list)" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote to Freelance
Traveller:

> Uh, Anybody read Heinlein's 'Starship Troopers'?

Once in my youth; I might again if I can come up with an e-dition.

More recently, though, Tom Kratman's _Terra Nova_ series uses the idea in
defining the government of the Timocratic Republic of Balboa. (The first
book in the series is called _A Desert Called Peace_, and the entire series
is under the Baen imprint with no "MineAndYouCanOnlyUseItTheWayIWantYouTo"
silliness to get in your way. And it's priced reasonably. And it's not even
locked to a "preferred" format.

>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    On Tuesday, July 7, 2020, 05:26:34 PM MST, Jeffrey Schwartz <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Exactly.
>
>On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 20:08 <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Service guarantees citizenship!"
>
>On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 8:02 PM Jeffrey Schwartz <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I always read it as you could avoid your 4 year service, and be an Imperial Subject.
>Or you could do your 4 years and be an Imperial Citizen. Not everyone who does the Service is in the big 5, or even in the Imperial branch. Doing 4 in the planetary defense fleet of a colonial world counts. Doing 4 as a lab researcher for the Planetary Disease Agency counts (ie Scientist)
>
>
>
>On Tue, Jul 7, 2020, 19:48 <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:28 AM Phil Pugliese - philpugliese at yahoo.com (via tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:
>
> [Misc comments interspersed]
>    On Saturday, July 4, 2020, 02:52:48 PM MST, <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's interesting that the Traveller model is not 'apply to a bunch of schools or find a job in essential areas or else get drafted'. Instead, it is 'try getting a job somewhere, and when you blow the first one... the government steals you!'. <rolls eyes>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>To those of us in the USA who grew up w/ 'the draft' in the US (like MM) it seems not out-of-the-ordinary.But for the ImpGov? Not so much.But, I could see local govs, depending upon gov-class, 'impressing' folks & maybe even sending out the good old 'press gangs'.Or, as I heard in an old movie, "You all now compulsorily enlisted!".These personnel could also be supplied to the local subsector's Colonial Forces either voluntarily or by requirement.Also, there's also the Imperial Charter that each member world is granted.There just might be a clause in there wrt supplying a certain number of recruits to the Imp Regulars w/o specifying exactly how that was to be done.So, perhaps there are methane breathing units w/i the local, subsector, or imperial units stationed in Yebab's subsector/sector.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------  
>
>I'm very fond of what you wrote here. The fact there are hundreds or thousands of ways this might work around the Imperium fits with the patchwork it seems to be. That said, the rules work one way... (and yes, we all accept that can be changed and I'm not suggesting they be changed either)
>The rules also don't enforce mandatory service, which I can almost see in an Imperial context. If everyone had to do a 4 year term, then enter the reserves for 4 years, and be on inactive reserve for another 4, that would be a huge pool of sophonts. I guess it would be like all real world instances - the rich, kids going to uni, sophonts too difficult to integrate, some groups or planets who negotiate their charter to avoid it, etc. could not do it. And those who were not of sufficient physical potential might also be refused.
>
>That might also fit with an 'Expansionist Empire with a side order of Conquest' vs. the fairly static (as of 1100ish) Imperium. Sort of like the Mirror, Mirror enterprise crew.
>
> 
>
>Drafts, on the other hand, make for less effective militaries - or at least that's the theory of most advanced democracies (not all - the Swiss and Israelis and Swedes have national service). On the other hand, the UK, the US, and Canada don't. It would never have flown with Quebec in Canada and now with our cultural diversity, a lot of subsections of the society would have concerns about it and where they might be sent.
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Up to 1940, the US never had a peacetime draft. Up to then it had only been for wartime, but both the US & UK continued drafting (there was a short break in the US) for quite some time after WWII.The US stopped early in 1973 while I believe that the UK stopped in 1964'Years ago, on the old UseNet lists, someone commented that Canada had a draft during WWI but didn't during WWII due to "bad feelings" about the WWI experience.
>
>Quebec's relationship to Canada is not strictly analogous to some others around the world, but it loosely is analogous to Scotland <-> UK, Catalans <-> Spain, Basques <-> Spain, etc. The Quebec culture is different, the language is different, the values are more socialized and pacific than the rest of the country, plus 1914/1918 was still close to 1867. Now I think a draft could never work here unless Canada was clearly at threat directly. Same with mandatory service. The reality is people don't expect here to have to go fight for the country (That's the job of a small % of the population who volunteer for Regular or Reserve forces).
>
>We didn't need the draft too much either in WWII. It (WWII) wasn't the meat grinder in the same way WW1 was and there were lots of volunteers to go and fight the fascists and help the mother country (England). At the point, our constitution was still a British document in Westminster, not a home written one with a different relationship to the Crown (in some respects). 
>I could see a lot of groups not wanting to serve in Imperial forces, but I could see a lot being willing to or at least acquiescing to having national service. Maybe moreso near the conflicted frontiers (like say in the Domain of Deneb for example).
>
>TomB
>
>-----
>The Traveller Mailing List
>Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
>Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
>To unsubscribe from this list please go to
>http://archives.simplelists.com
>
>
>-----
>The Traveller Mailing List
>Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
>Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
>To unsubscribe from this list please go to
>http://archives.simplelists.com
>
>
>-----
>The Traveller Mailing List
>Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
>Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
>To unsubscribe from this list please go to
>http://archives.simplelists.com
>
>
>-----
>The Traveller Mailing List
>Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
>Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
>To unsubscribe from this list please go to
>http://archives.simplelists.com
>
>-----
>The Traveller Mailing List
>Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml
>Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com
>To unsubscribe from this list please go to
>http://www.simplelists.com/confirm.php?u=uVyfonVzlsGwnSKN2tn21umMrgO3BRd9

®Traveller is a registered trademark of
Far Future Enterprises, 1977-2020. Use of
the trademark in this notice and in the
referenced materials is not intended to
infringe or devalue the trademark.

--
Jeff Zeitlin, Editor
Freelance Traveller
    The Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller® Resource
xxxxxx@freelancetraveller.com
http://www.freelancetraveller.com

Freelance Traveller extends its thanks to the following
enterprises for hosting services:

onCloud/CyberWeb Enterprises (http://www.oncloud.io)
The Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com)