Hello Phil and everyone on the TML,

My apologies for the earlier two posts, my bad Monday started on 10/25 and
has continued for most of today 10/26. Here is my real reply to you Phil.

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Pugliese (via tml list)
Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2014 2:49 PM
To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com
Subject: Re: [TML] Original CT LBB's scoutship vs CT HG scoutship?

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--------------------------------------------
Sat, 10/25/14:

[SNIP]

PHIL;

>
> I looked at HG 2ed (I didn't see the 1st ed for quite some years as I came
> into Trav right after the 2nd ed came out & the 1st ed was superseded

> after > only one year) as similar to the mil-spec requirements of the US
> DoD, so I felt that those rules should be followed slavishly.
> (I still wonder how the original 'Plankwell' BB design. with that wimpy
> meson screen, was danced past the Procurement folks. Maybe someone
> connected to it had high-level contacts/influence? "Hey we'll just use
> them against foes with only low-level meson guns, or none at all! Right?)

TOM;

Lucky you I got a good look at HG 1st edition and did
not get past determining the weapon rating codes.
Of course there are some things that HG 2nd Edition
omitted, fighter squadrons and medical section are
the biggest.

Based on the number of real world warships that where
built my take was the builder orally promised that the
Plankwell class would have the meson screens upgrade
at a later time and the later time or funding never arrived
to do the job.

========================================================================================
PHIL (new);

Yeah, that'd work.

Or it could've been analogous to various attempts to hold down US defense
expenditures, like the way the early Spruance class DD's were initially
criticized for having only anti-sub capability & little else but had lot's
of spare room for future upgrades. Only, in the end, as in yours, the
upgrades never happened.

>Tom (new)
  The contractor made money and the government got stuck with the product.
  Of course another reason is that the IN decided to build the next
generation
  so they didn't care about the obsolete Plankwells.
>
==========================================================================================

PHIL;

> With LBB2, & esp after the 'Annic Nova' adventure indicated that
> 'non-standard' designs *could* get an Imperial Registry, I tended to allow
> a reasonable amount of 'fudging' (post-commision non-standard refits?),
> esp
> since I became aware of the diffs tween the LBB2's when I bought that
> hardbound Traveller Book, started using it, & noticed right away some
> diffs w/ the original LBB's 1-3. (and even some minor diffs w/ the 2nd ed
> LBB's > 1-3)

TOM;

I have two copies, pamphlet and in the FFE reprint, of JTAS 1 that as far as
I know is the first place the Annic Nova appeared, unfortunately I only
skimmed through the details and never did anything else with the design.

PHIL;

> Still, one thing that remains 'hard & fast' is the large volume of fuel
> required for jumping. (60% for J6!)

> But, there is also the 'Annic Nova' example where large solar 'sails' were
> used to charge the jump capacitors.

> (Still can't see how that could actually work though, It's such a large
> energy requirement)

> Now there's a thought, maybe the Scout Ship could have a J4 engine but
> carry only enough fuel for J3.

> If J4 was wanted then drop tanks could be used if  avail (note: I've
> always thought that the IN Tank-Rons also performed the function of
> 'drop-tank' tenders) or a 'sail' like the 'Annic Nova' used could be
> deployed.

> [Note: As I recall the 'Nova had enough storage capacity to allow for TWO
> jumps. (one J3 & one J2, I think)]

TOM;

During my efforts to go through and verify the original Traveller designs
I've been thinking about the jump fuel requirement. Since the time in jump
space is approximately 168 hours I think that half the fuel opens
jump space  at the outbound jump point and the remaining half reverses the
process at the inbound jump point. Per JTAS 1 page 30 the energy collector
canopy takes between 1 and 6 weeks to charge the accumulators to make
a jump. The accumulators, I guessing here, change the collected energy into
right type of electrical and begins charging the jump capacitors and power
for the internal systems.

Per the design and construction rules jump fuel tankage is calculated based
on the maximum jump rating, of course if one is using the concept that the
if the rules do specifically forbid not having a full jump fuel load then
the fuel load can be less than that needed to make a jump four.

I'm not sure what IN Tank-Rons means, but I'll take a swing at answering. My
guess is that an IN Tank-Ron is a squadron of tankers used as mobile gas
stations similar to the KC-135 inflight refueling tanker. In the case of a
drop tank tender I think that the ship collects the jettisoned tanks
beginning the refurbishing process while heading to the port where they can
be placed
in storage until needed for the next run.

=====================================================================================
PHIL(New);

I first encountered 'tankers' in the original 'Imperium' board game from GDW
that covered the period of the 'Interstellar Wars' 'tween the Vilani &
Terrans that culminated in the end of the First Imp followed shortly after
by the est. of the 2nd.
'Tankers' were needed to be able to follow jump routes thru 'bachelor' star
systems.

There are actual tanker squadrons in the 'Fifth Frontier War' board game.
They can accompany a fleet & allow it to jump again in situations where the
fleet would otherwise have to pause to refuel

I envisioned them staying behind when the rest of the fleet jumped,
collecting the d'tanks, & then either following along or going elsewhere,
depending on their orders.

>Tom (new)
   I have both board games, but never got around to playing them, but I did
   read through the rules. I think I also checked through them in
conjunction
   creating table of organizations for various military units. The project,
  like many others, is still a work in progress.
>
======================================================================================

TOM;

The Consolidated CT Errata mentions that to fill and I think refine
the soup in the fuel tanks takes about 8 hours when skimming a
gas giant and then the time needed to travel to the jump point.
The Annic Nova takes between 1 and 6 weeks to have enough
power to charge the jump capacitors and then travel to the
outbound jump point.

Several of my characters where Scouts and form my point of view
I would not want to be in a possibly unfriendly system for one to six
weeks waiting to charge the jump drive.

=====================================================================================

PHIL(new);

It seems to me that the A'Nova or a similarly equipped vessel, could deploy
it's 'sail' while it's inbound, thus it would already have some 'juice' in
the j'capacitors before it, or any other vessel, could otherwise begin
refueling.

Thus a scout ship equipped w/ something similar could actually be prepared
to jump sooner than one w/o a 'sail'.

And then there's also the very real possibility, if there are no gas giants
present in the system,  that the vessel may actually have to make planetfall
in order to refuel .  In that situation, having a 'sail' could make a
critical difference. (note; I do believe that there are systems, though
very,very few, w/o either
GG's or 'water', where the only refuelling option is at a facility. 'A
'sail' could be very handy
in such a system)

Also, consumption of fuel for jumping also depends on what version of the
rules you are using.
The original rpg rules & the 5thFW boardgame used the original rules that
required vessels to
use *all* their jump fuel to 'energize' the jump drives, no matter how long
the actual jump was.
Hence, any  time a vessel jumped, it used up all it's jump fuel, no matter
what.

CT LBB5 HGv1 introduced the 'jump governor' which allowed a vessel to
calculate it's fuel usage
as if it's J-drive were the same 'number' as the jump distance. Hence, a
vessel w/ a J4 drive could
make, w/o refuelling, four J1's, two J2's or any combo that added up to
exactly four.
Now that really introduced a whole lot more flexibility into the rpg as well
as, if used (I don't
believe it was ever actually put into the rules), the above board game.

Personally, I would've preferred to have Trav stick w/ the original rule but
by the time I got into it,
the jump governor had already been introduced, leaving me to conclude for
quite some time that the
fuel usage rules in the 5FW boardgame were  introduced by the game designer
to simplify the game,
rather than actually mirroring the earlier rules set.

>Tom (new)
  Phil are you referring to the Annic Nova's *canopy* as the 'sail'?

  From JTAS 1 page 30 under Maneuver, Acceleration, or  Evasion the Annic
  Nova uses the two 40-ton pinnaces not the *canopy* which "collects
radiated
  solar power and stores it in the accumulators on the drive deck." Fully
charged
  accumulators store enough power to charge the J-2 capacitors, the J-3
capacitors,
  operate life support, and handle all other internal power requirements.
JTAS 1
  page 17 states that the Annic Nova appeared near the worlds Heya (0802)
and
  immediately jumped out of the system. The next sighting was at Kinorb
(0602)
  where the Annic Nova stayed nearly five weeks before jumping out of the
system.
  Then the Annic Nova arrived at  Dentus (0601) once again immediately
jumped out
  of the system.

  Off the top of my head the Annic Nova  arrived off Heya and had enough
power
  for the jump to Kinorb. Apparently a number of factors combined together
that
  the Annic Nova took almost five weeks to recharge the accumulators
allowing
  the ship to reach Dentus. Apparently there is a program running that
causes
  the Annic Nova to jump immediately under certain conditions like five
  scout/couriers on an intercept course, which is what happened.

  The only traditional fuel carried on the Annic Nova is in the fuel tanks
of the two
  40-ton pinnaces.

  That being said then a scout/courier, provided that accumulators are fully
charged would
  be capable of jumping into a system, look around, and jump out without
needing to gather
  and purify jump fuel. However, when the accumulators don't have enough of
a charge to
  run the jump drive the scout has to hang out for one to six weeks
recharging.

  My understanding of jump fuel usage from either edition of LBB 2 and LBB 5
has been only
  the amount of fuel needed to make a jump was used. A ship with a J-5 drive
making a one
  parsec jump used 1/5 of the fuel. Sadly, Fifth Frontier War falls into the
same category as
  Imperium and Interstellar Wars of having them, reading the rules, and not
playing them.
  Which is why I don't recall the Fifth Frontier War jump fuel usage
requirement and I would
  probably have ignored the rule anyway.

  Unfortunately, HG 2nd edition did away with most of the optional stuff
like the jump governor.
  Of course the second edition also did away with the 10-ton bay which I had
used on a design
  I was working in spite of not knowing how get the weapon rating codes.

  The jump governor was to make LBB 2 1st edition ships compatible with LBB
5 1st edition. With the
  release of the 2nd editions the fuel usage  issue went away and the LBB 5
HG 1st edition jump
  governor got the boot too.
>

I think I've covered everything, but then again probably not.

Tom Rux

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