Re: Multi Jumping is no big deal since LBB5v1, was Re: Incredibly efficient! was Re: [TML] L-Hyd not necessary for jumping & misc.... Phil Pugliese 21 May 2016 06:00 UTC
___________________________________________________________________ Depends on what you mean by "ruleset". I consider both LBB5's to be part of the same ruleset, ie:CT (T1) I can't really see treating each book as separate ruleset even if one book is a revised version of the other. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 5/20/16, Craig Berry <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote: Subject: Re: Multi Jumping is no big deal since LBB5v1, was Re: Incredibly efficient! was Re: [TML] L-Hyd not necessary for jumping & misc.... To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com Date: Friday, May 20, 2016, 4:07 PM I think you could make a good case that each ruleset should be treated as a standalone entity for "official" purposes. So if jump governors aren't mentioned in a given ruleset, then they don't "officially" exist under those rules. Bringing them in from a prior ruleset would be categorized as a house rule. On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Phil Pugliese (via tml list) <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote: This email was sent from yahoo.com which does not allow forwarding of emails via email lists. Therefore the sender's email address (xxxxxx@yahoo.com) has been replaced with a dummy one. The original message follows: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I guess we have different definitions of the meaning of the term "did away with". To me it means that if something was previously introduced it should be *explicitly* excluded. As always YMMV. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 5/20/16, tmr0195@comcast.net <tmr0195@comcast.net> wrote: Subject: Re: Multi Jumping is no big deal since LBB5v1, was Re: Incredibly efficient! was Re: [TML] L-Hyd not necessary for jumping & misc.... To: "TML" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> Date: Friday, May 20, 2016, 2:19 PM Hello Phil, From: "Phil Pugliese (via tml list)" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> To: "TML" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 7:46:26 AM Subject: Re: Multi Jumping is no big deal since LBB5v1, was Re: Incredibly efficient! was Re: [TML] L-Hyd not necessary for jumping & misc.... >Well, not really, at least as far as the *effect* of a J-governor. >Before the intro of the 'governor a ship had to use the same amount of fuel no matter how far it jumped & that >amount of fuel was dictated by it's J-rating, ie: a J4 ship needed to use enough fuel for a J4 no matter how far it >jumped. >After the governor's intro, the ship only used the amount of fuel required for a jump of that distance, ie: a J4 ship >w/ enough fuel for J4 would only use 1/4 for a J1, 1/2 for a J2, 3/4 for a J3, & all of it for a J4. >CT LBB5 HGv2 may not have mentioned the items you detail but that doesn't mean to me that they were "done >away with". >It just means that they weren't mentioned. The issue is that had your first purchase been CT LBB 5 HG2 1980 you would have no knowledge of jump governors, missile magazines or From 1980 onward first time gamers, unless they had some players with copies of CT LBB 5 HG 1979, would have no knowledge of jump governors. With the release of CT LBB 2 1977/1981 the jump fuel usage were changed to match CT LBB 5 HG2 1980. Technically speaking the published rules in 1980 and 1981 did away with jump governors. >p.s. Capacitors/accumulators *were* still detailed in the section on Black Globes. Yes, CT LBB 5 HG 1979 p. 28 mentions that the Black Globe "totally envelopes the ship in an absorbent black sphere. All incoming energy is diverted to capacitors, and does no damage." The following information is also provided: "If a large amount of energy is absorbed by the globe, the capacitors might overload, dropping the barrier as well as doing extensive damage to the ship." CT LBB 5 HG2 1980 p. 31 provides, in my opinion, a bit more information about the capacitors that the Black Globe diverts all incoming energy to capacitors in the jump drive. The jump drive has 1.5% of the ship's mass tons of capacitors installed and additional jump drive capacitors can be purchased separately for MCr4.0 for each one ton of capacitors. Yes CT LBB 5 HG 1979 p. 32 mentions that a in order to use disposable L-Hyd tanks the jump drive must have a "special high capacity accumulator" installed. A drop tank's base cost is Cr10,000 + Cr1,000 per ton of fuel capacity. The special high capacity accumulator is available at TL 12 at a cost of Cr500,000. Under these rules installing a single 50-ton L-Hyd disposable fuel tank costs Cr10,000 + (50 x Cr1,000) = Cr10,000 + Cr50,000 = Cr60,000. The special high capacity accumulator tacks on another Cr500,000 increasing a hull's cost by CR560,000. CT LBB 5 HG2 1980 p. 23 does not mention the need for special high capacity accumulator, a TL requirement, or a cost. The same installed 50-ton L-Hyd disposable fuel tank costs Cr10,000 + (50 x Cr1,000) = Cr10,000 + Cr50,000 = Cr60,000. In CT LBB 5 HG 1979 both capacitors and accumulators are mentioned. In CT LBB 5 HG2 1980 the only mention is about capacitors installed in the jump drive that the black globe diverted energy to and the ability to purchase jump drive capacitors in 1 ton lots with a price of MCr4.0. Of course there are probably references to accumulators in materials I have no read after 1980 and nothing got changed in the materials written prior to 1980. Tom R -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5/19/16, tmr0195@comcast.net <tmr0195@comcast.net> wrote: Subject: Re: Multi Jumping is no big deal since LBB5v1, was Re: Incredibly efficient! was Re: [TML] L-Hyd not necessary for jumping & misc.... To: "TML" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> Date: Thursday, May 19, 2016, 8:27 PM Evening PDT Phil, CT LBB 5 HG2 1980 did away with the jump governor, the special high capacity accumulators required to use drop tanks, and missile magazines. Tom R From: "Phil Pugliese (via tml list)" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> To: "TML" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2016 7:39:55 PM Subject: Multi Jumping is no big deal since LBB5v1, was Re: Incredibly efficient! was Re: [TML] L-Hyd not necessary for jumping & misc.... This email was sent from yahoo.com which does not allow forwarding of emails via email lists. Therefore the sender's email address (xxxxxx@yahoo.com) has been replaced with a dummy one. The original message follows: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Well, it's really not that hard to explain; "Well there's another ship that's equipped with a jump governor so it doesn't have to use all it's fuel each jump & doesn't therefore have to refuel each time it jumps. Ain't it something how popular those gadgets have gotten since that guy 'MM' invented them." -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 5/19/16, Craig Berry <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote: Subject: Re: Incredibly efficient! was Re: [TML] L-Hyd not necessary for jumping & misc.... To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com Date: Thursday, May 19, 2016, 4:02 PM Yep. The only thing that's hard to explain about the AN is why every Imperial ship in the sector (and every commercial ship that's heard about it) isn't engaged in an all-out hunt for the thing. Magic tech can sometimes be reverse engineered, after all, and this magic might prove especially valuable for whichever faction grabbed it first. Think about it...an *entirely new way of Jumping*. Who knows; with some tweaking you could perhaps get the recharge time from weeks to hours or minutes. Or perhaps there are parts of the tech that you could adapt to make normal J-drives more efficient. Seriously, the player characters wouldn't be able to reach the Annic Nova through the traffic jam of other ships trying to grab it. I'm picturing a situation much like that of the Streaker in Brin's _Startide Rising_. On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Bruce Johnson <xxxxxx@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote: On May 19, 2016, at 2:14 PM, tmr0195@comcast.net wrote: Hello Richard, If one believes in that the hydrogen is dumped around the ship to form a bubble that somehow is used to open jump space then the Annic Nova's jump drives have a huge problem to overcome. To paraphrase an out-of-date cultural reference: “Jump’s got 99 problems, but the Annic Nova ain't one” Dealing with a one-off artifact of an extremely higher, unattainable TL is MUCH easier than dealing with the many consequences of the rules as stated. The main issue here is the unintended consequences of the rules. The AN is painfully simple to explain: it’s Clarke’s Third Law magic. -- Bruce Johnson ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please goto http://archives.simplelists.com ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please goto http://archives.simplelists.com ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please goto http://archives.simplelists.com -- Craig Berry (http://google.com/+CraigBerry) "Eternity is in love with the productions of time." - William Blake ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please goto http://www.simplelists.com/confirm.php?u=EwREIRgLK8vaUEhNlnoNdSGKwnjoID8a