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On Sat, 5/21/16, xxxxxx@comcast.net <xxxxxx@comcast.net> wrote:

 Subject: Re: Multi Jumping is no big deal since LBB5v1, was Re: Incredibly efficient! was Re: [TML] L-Hyd not necessary for jumping & misc....
 To: "TML" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com>
 Date: Saturday, May 21, 2016, 9:28 PM

 From: "Phil
 Pugliese (via tml list)"
 <xxxxxx@simplelists.com>
 To:
 "TML" <xxxxxx@simplelists.com>
 Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 3:37:22
 PM
 Subject: Re: Multi Jumping is no
 big deal since LBB5v1, was Re: Incredibly efficient! was Re:
 [TML] L-Hyd not necessary for jumping & misc....

 On
 Sat, 5/21/16, xxxxxx@comcast.net
 <xxxxxx@comcast.net> wrote:

  Subject: Re: Multi Jumping is no big
 deal since LBB5v1, was Re: Incredibly efficient! was Re:
 [TML] L-Hyd not necessary for jumping & misc....
  To: "TML"
 <xxxxxx@simplelists.com>
  Date:
 Saturday, May 21, 2016, 6:06 AM
  
  Morning
  PDT Phil,
  
  From: "Phil
  Pugliese (via tml list)"
  <xxxxxx@simplelists.com>
  To: "TML"
 <xxxxxx@simplelists.com>
  Sent: Friday,
 May 20, 2016 11:00:59 PM
  Subject: Re:
 Multi Jumping is no big deal since
  LBB5v1,
 was Re: Incredibly efficient! was Re: [TML] L-Hyd
  not necessary for jumping & misc....
  
  >Depends on what you
 mean by "ruleset".
  
  >I consider both LBB5's to be part of
 the same
  ruleset, ie:CT (T1)
  
  >I can't really see
 treating each book as
  separate ruleset
 even if one book is a revised version of
  the other.
  
  I have the ten FFE CT reprints purchased back
 in 2000
  until I what I believe is the
 complete set. Then I have my
  dog-eared
 copy if CT LBB 1-3 1977, CT LBB 5 HG 1979, two of
  CT HG 1980 (1st and 15th printings), Striker
 1981, and
  Supplement 12 1983. I've
 also have a copy of LBB 8,
  which is buried
 at the bottom of one of the book piles I
  have, unfortunately I'm not sure which
 pile and I'd
  rather not tip any of
 them over.;-)
  
  In FFE CT
 001 LBB 0-8 LBB
  1-3 are 1977/1981 3rd
 Printings and LBB 5 1980 12th
  printing.
 Anyone purchasing a complete set of CT after 1981
  would not have known about material dropped,
 dumped, or
  omitted from the 1977 to 1980
 issued LBBs. Okay, if the
  individual meets
 someone with the older version of the rule
  set they will discover what disappeared with
 the revised
  material.
  
  Tom R

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 >All true.
 (Although I prefer the term 'omitted' rather than
 "did away with, etc) In fact, I think most of us
 probably >didn't 'buy-in' at the very dawn of
 Traveller, so there would be gaps there & also gaps if
 one or another of us >didn't keep up w/ all the
 pubs.
 I was lucky to find the
 copy of Traveller in 1977/78 since the books I picked up
 were the only ones there. While I was deployed to the Med
 from 1991 to October 1994 I missed a lot of Traveller
 material that came. From October 1994 to July 1, 2009 I
 tried picking up material I missed. From July 1 2009 to mid
 2014 I was not buying much of anything because on June 30,
 2009 I got a pick slip from my place of employment and
 discovered I had way to much debt and to little income
 without a job. Now I'm slowly trying to keep building my
 collection, okay hoard, of gaming material.

 >So then, &
 since few of us live in void, devoid of any contact w/
 others, what do you do when someone else >trots out their
 very much 'official' LBB, etc. & points out
 something that you or I wasn't aware of?
 >Well, one option is, "I never saw or
 heard of that before now so get rid of it or get
 lost!".
 >Or, perhaps some other
 response would be more appropo?
 I am guilty of trotting out the CT
 LBB 1-3 1977 and CT LBB 5 1979 under certain circumstances.
 In CT Supplement 7 1980 p. 35 the system defense boat has
 two missile magazines. CT LBB 5 1980 does not mention
 missile magazines, however CT LBB 5 p. 32 does have a rule
 for missile magazines.

 I have suggested that with some
 modification the LBB 5 1979 missile magazine rule should be
 reinstated in LBB 5 1980. Actually, I included a unpolished
 modification along with the suggestion. Nothing has
 happened, even after suggesting using the missile magazine
 rule in MT.

 >In my mind the old rules would still be
 valid *unless* specifically & explicitly contradicted by
 a later version.
 >And even in that case
 (re: jump torps) I believe there should be some leeway esp
 considering the adv involving >the 'Leviathan'
 .
 I may be mistaken
 but with CT LBB 1 through 3 the copyright information is
 1977/1981 while the two copies of CT LBB 5 HG2 are 1980. If
 CT LBB 5 HG2 had a copyright of 1979/1980 I would agree that
 the 1979 copy is valid source document. Without the
 annotation of 1979 I think makes the material not in the
 1980 CT LBB 5 HG2 edition is not valid unless everyone at
 the table agrees to use them.

 CT Adventure 4 Leviathan has a
 copyright of 1980 but from the material appears to have been
 constructed using CT LBB 5 1979 and CT LBB 2 1977 rules.
 Unfortunately, rewriting the design specification for the
 Leviathan and a number of other published ships to the CT
 LBB 5 HG2 1980 and CT LBB 2 1977/1981 was probably not
 possible at the time for unknown reasons.

 >Also, in LBB5
 it is explicitly stated that the LBB2 rules for starship
 creation are *still* valid despite the fact that >they
 don't  jibe w/ LBB5.

 Yes, LBB 5 1980 p. 22: Drives  "It
 is possible  to include standard drives (at standard
 prices) from Book 2 it they will otherwise meet the
 ship's requirements; such drives use fuel identical to
 the formulas in Book 2."
 LBB 2 1977/1981 p. 15: "At a
 minimum, ship fuel tankage must equal 0.1MJn+10Pn, where M
 is the tonnage of the ship, Jn is the ship's jump
 number, and Pn is the ship's power plant rating for four
 weeks of fuel. Jump fuel under the formula (0.1MJn) allows
 one jump of the stated level. Ships performing jumps less
 than their maximum capacity consume fuel at a lower level
 based on the jump number used."

 The 
 LBB 2 1977 using all jump fuel regardless of jump distance
 and LBB 5 1979 installation of a jump governor has been
 written out of the CT rule set.

 Tom R (hopefully i did better this
 time)

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I have to disagree...
To agree would be to imply that once certain items are not mentioned anymore, they have somehow 'poofed' out of existence w/i the TU.
Never to be seen or heard of again.
But these items have been woven into the fabric that constitutes the background of the TU.
Once that happens they are here to stay.

p.s. IMO, "written out", etc. does NOT been "gone, illegal, etc.".

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