Re: [TML] Currency Phil Pugliese 13 Jul 2016 00:11 UTC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ That's very true. And that includes paper money so old that it doesn't even have the metal thread in it! -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 7/12/16, Abu Dhabi <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [TML] Currency To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com Date: Tuesday, July 12, 2016, 1:56 PM Well, in the specific case of US currency, there's a bit of a general problem because all dollar bills printed at all times are deemed valid currency - at least in theory - including those with previous makes and security technologies. Old issues might be refused because they look strange, good counterfeits might be accepted because they don't. On 12 July 2016 at 22:52, David Shaw <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote: OK, but how many of them are good enough to fool a US citizen? They might fool me because, as a UK citizen who has never visited the USA, I have never seen a real $100 bill except in quick flashes on the TV but would they be accepted in a US store? David Shaw This email was sent from yahoo.com which does not allow forwarding of emails via email lists. Therefore the sender's email address (xxxxxx@yahoo.com) has been replaced with a dummy one. The original message follows: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NorthKorea & Iran & (?) have been counterfeiting $100US for, literally, decades. In fact, years ago, my father showed me a newspaper article that stated that it was well known that anywhere from 1/3 - 1/2 of the US 100 dollar bills in circulation in parts of asia were counterfeit. Life goes on.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Tue, 7/12/16, Abu Dhabi <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [TML] Currency To: xxxxxx@simplelists.com Date: Tuesday, July 12, 2016, 11:26 AM >Well, largely the way we’re not faced with instant, massive counterfeiting, fraud and hyperinflation today. The bills are made with anti-counterfeiting measures in place. microscopic encrypted keys readable by a bill checker, akin to modern counterfeit detectors, etc. OK. I can buy a anti-counterfeiting technology handwave, even if it's a little hard to believe in a setting incredibly more diverse than the European Union is (where a monetary union combined with federalism and diversity of economies have led to substantial financial difficulties, albeit different than I presented). It is a little hard to believe partly because of the inevitable, hard-to-track-down criminals who would presumably have the capacity to kidnap an engineer or three and start taking verifiers apart, in order to reverse-engineer what an undetectable forgery is supposed to look like. Replacing compromised countermeasures sounds like a nightmare, because presumably all legit Crimps everywhere need to verify as legit - unless you have multiple valid standards... in which case security is poorer, but you could limit damage; but it would still be horrifically painful to reimplement verification measures. I'm not sure issuing a new currency would go a smoothly as our RL currency changes do, simply because of the vast amounts of time needed to get information across. >Heck, during WWII the Germans printed, essentially, real 5, 10, 20 and 50 pound notes, and it didn’t work <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bernhard>. Reading that page makes me think it didn't work because it didn't have sufficient time to work - and not enough cooperation between right hand and left hand - before it was shut down. On 12 July 2016 at 18:30, Bruce Johnson <xxxxxx@pharmacy.arizona.edu> wrote: On Jul 12, 2016, at 7:27 AM, Abu Dhabi <xxxxxx@gmail.com> wrote: How does the Imperial Credit function? AFAIK, it is a paper (well - plastic) currency backed my the Imperial economy. How does this not lead to instant, massive counterfeiting, fraud and hyperinflation? The notes are supposedly proof against forgery, but I struggle to imagine how they could be. Well, largely the way we’re not faced with instant, massive counterfeiting, fraud and hyperinflation today. The bills are made with anti-counterfeiting measures in place. microscopic encrypted keys readable by a bill checker, akin to modern counterfeit detectors, etc. I’m sure it occurs, as it does here in the Real World, but it’s not a sufficiently large issue to cause problems. Heck, during WWII the Germans printed, essentially, real 5, 10, 20 and 50 pound notes, and it didn’t work <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bernhard>. Mechanisms exist today to manage anonymous but verifiable and uncounterfeitable currency: Bitcoin. It has it’s problems (primarily rooted in it’s inherent goldbuggery, but that leads to deflation, not inflation.) but the avenues for anonymous secure, and verifiable electronic transactions are there, and have been for quite some time: http://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/474/830. http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/classes/6.805/articles/money/nsamint/nsamint.htm We had a long long <strike>flamewar</strike> cordial, but spirited discussion of electronic cash transfers on the list sometime in the last couple of years. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please goto http://archives.simplelists.com ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please goto http://archives.simplelists.com ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please goto http://archives.simplelists.com ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please goto http://archives.simplelists.com ----- The Traveller Mailing List Archives at http://archives.simplelists.com/tml Report problems to xxxxxx@simplelists.com To unsubscribe from this list please goto http://www.simplelists.com/confirm.php?u=EwREIRgLK8vaUEhNlnoNdSGKwnjoID8a