Instant city Knapp (09 Feb 2016 16:19 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Jeffrey Schwartz (09 Feb 2016 16:27 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Kelly St. Clair (09 Feb 2016 16:45 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city carlos.web@xxxxxx (09 Feb 2016 16:52 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Knapp (09 Feb 2016 18:50 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (09 Feb 2016 19:15 UTC)
RE: [TML] Instant city Antony Farrell (10 Feb 2016 03:33 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Nokes (09 Feb 2016 17:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Peter L. Berghold (09 Feb 2016 16:55 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Kelly St. Clair (09 Feb 2016 17:33 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Kelly St. Clair (09 Feb 2016 17:39 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Peter L. Berghold (09 Feb 2016 18:13 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Doug Grimes (09 Feb 2016 19:19 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (09 Feb 2016 19:27 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Grimmund (09 Feb 2016 21:02 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Peter L. Berghold (09 Feb 2016 21:12 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Richard Aiken (11 Feb 2016 06:14 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (11 Feb 2016 07:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city William Ewing (11 Feb 2016 06:46 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Traveller (11 Feb 2016 13:54 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (11 Feb 2016 14:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Jeffrey Schwartz (11 Feb 2016 15:03 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Knapp (11 Feb 2016 15:21 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Knapp (11 Feb 2016 15:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Bruce Johnson (11 Feb 2016 18:37 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Jeffrey Schwartz (11 Feb 2016 18:50 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (11 Feb 2016 18:57 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Knapp (11 Feb 2016 18:59 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (11 Feb 2016 19:17 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (11 Feb 2016 20:20 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (11 Feb 2016 20:26 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (11 Feb 2016 20:47 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city shadow@xxxxxx (19 Feb 2016 06:27 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Bruce Johnson (11 Feb 2016 19:31 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (11 Feb 2016 18:42 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Bruce Johnson (11 Feb 2016 19:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Nokes (11 Feb 2016 19:41 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Bruce Johnson (11 Feb 2016 19:51 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (11 Feb 2016 18:39 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (11 Feb 2016 16:16 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Jeffrey Schwartz (11 Feb 2016 16:29 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (11 Feb 2016 20:15 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Jeffrey Schwartz (11 Feb 2016 20:55 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (11 Feb 2016 21:40 UTC)
Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Bruce Johnson (11 Feb 2016 21:16 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) tmr0195@xxxxxx (11 Feb 2016 22:00 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Bruce Johnson (11 Feb 2016 22:46 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Kelly St. Clair (12 Feb 2016 01:44 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Richard Aiken (12 Feb 2016 05:01 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Craig Berry (12 Feb 2016 17:41 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Richard Aiken (13 Feb 2016 03:01 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) tmr0195@xxxxxx (12 Feb 2016 06:36 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Ethan McKinney (11 Feb 2016 22:58 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) tmr0195@xxxxxx (12 Feb 2016 06:40 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Jeffrey Schwartz (12 Feb 2016 15:22 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) tmr0195@xxxxxx (12 Feb 2016 15:55 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Kelly St. Clair (12 Feb 2016 17:36 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) tmr0195@xxxxxx (12 Feb 2016 18:19 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Craig Berry (12 Feb 2016 19:15 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Andrew Long (12 Feb 2016 22:42 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) rupert.boleyn@xxxxxx (13 Feb 2016 01:19 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Craig Berry (13 Feb 2016 01:56 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) tmr0195@xxxxxx (13 Feb 2016 03:17 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Richard Aiken (13 Feb 2016 03:17 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) tmr0195@xxxxxx (13 Feb 2016 03:37 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) rupert.boleyn@xxxxxx (13 Feb 2016 07:18 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Greg Nokes (16 Feb 2016 02:07 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Richard Aiken (16 Feb 2016 23:11 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Craig Berry (16 Feb 2016 23:35 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Richard Aiken (16 Feb 2016 23:59 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Craig Berry (17 Feb 2016 00:06 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Richard Aiken (17 Feb 2016 00:39 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Craig Berry (17 Feb 2016 00:51 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Richard Aiken (17 Feb 2016 03:25 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Bruce Johnson (17 Feb 2016 03:25 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Richard Aiken (17 Feb 2016 03:33 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) shadow@xxxxxx (21 Feb 2016 00:23 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Bruce Johnson (12 Feb 2016 21:11 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Jeffrey Schwartz (15 Feb 2016 14:04 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) Richard Aiken (15 Feb 2016 17:15 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) rupert.boleyn@xxxxxx (15 Feb 2016 21:07 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) shadow@xxxxxx (21 Feb 2016 00:23 UTC)
Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) shadow@xxxxxx (21 Feb 2016 00:23 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (11 Feb 2016 20:57 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Bruce Johnson (11 Feb 2016 21:20 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (11 Feb 2016 21:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (11 Feb 2016 22:12 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (12 Feb 2016 00:22 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (12 Feb 2016 00:34 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (12 Feb 2016 01:18 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (12 Feb 2016 07:56 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (12 Feb 2016 08:04 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (12 Feb 2016 09:52 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (12 Feb 2016 10:20 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Knapp (12 Feb 2016 10:57 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Knapp (12 Feb 2016 11:00 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (12 Feb 2016 20:35 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Knapp (14 Feb 2016 18:02 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (12 Feb 2016 15:23 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (12 Feb 2016 16:52 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (12 Feb 2016 17:21 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (12 Feb 2016 17:19 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (12 Feb 2016 14:37 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Jeffrey Schwartz (12 Feb 2016 15:19 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (12 Feb 2016 15:53 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Jeffrey Schwartz (12 Feb 2016 17:56 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (12 Feb 2016 18:24 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (12 Feb 2016 20:57 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (12 Feb 2016 21:58 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city William Ewing (13 Feb 2016 01:53 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (13 Feb 2016 01:57 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Richard Aiken (13 Feb 2016 02:06 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city William Ewing (14 Feb 2016 06:18 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (14 Feb 2016 06:24 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city William Ewing (14 Feb 2016 06:59 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city shadow@xxxxxx (19 Feb 2016 22:00 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (12 Feb 2016 20:46 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (12 Feb 2016 20:57 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (12 Feb 2016 21:12 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Grimmund (12 Feb 2016 21:18 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Bruce Johnson (12 Feb 2016 21:23 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (12 Feb 2016 22:02 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (13 Feb 2016 02:31 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (12 Feb 2016 21:43 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (12 Feb 2016 22:01 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city William Ewing (13 Feb 2016 01:39 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (13 Feb 2016 01:54 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Bruce Johnson (13 Feb 2016 02:07 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Richard Aiken (13 Feb 2016 02:18 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Richard Aiken (13 Feb 2016 02:21 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (13 Feb 2016 02:25 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Richard Aiken (13 Feb 2016 03:31 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Timothy Collinson (13 Feb 2016 07:56 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city shadow@xxxxxx (19 Feb 2016 07:55 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (13 Feb 2016 03:22 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city William Ewing (14 Feb 2016 06:26 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (14 Feb 2016 06:40 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city William Ewing (14 Feb 2016 07:03 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (14 Feb 2016 19:54 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Richard Aiken (15 Feb 2016 00:48 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (15 Feb 2016 03:08 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (15 Feb 2016 03:15 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (15 Feb 2016 04:40 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city William Ewing (15 Feb 2016 09:09 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (15 Feb 2016 03:00 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (15 Feb 2016 03:59 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (15 Feb 2016 04:06 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (15 Feb 2016 04:50 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (15 Feb 2016 04:54 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (15 Feb 2016 05:14 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Knapp (15 Feb 2016 11:52 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city shadow@xxxxxx (19 Feb 2016 22:00 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Jeffrey Schwartz (12 Feb 2016 15:16 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city tmr0195@xxxxxx (12 Feb 2016 15:43 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Timothy Collinson (12 Feb 2016 04:25 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (12 Feb 2016 07:34 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Richard Aiken (12 Feb 2016 07:43 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (12 Feb 2016 07:47 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Craig Berry (12 Feb 2016 14:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Bruce Johnson (12 Feb 2016 20:23 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (12 Feb 2016 21:08 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Richard Aiken (13 Feb 2016 01:43 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Richard Aiken (13 Feb 2016 01:59 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (13 Feb 2016 03:09 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Timothy Collinson (12 Feb 2016 09:25 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (12 Feb 2016 10:19 UTC)
Re[2]: [TML] Instant city Timothy Collinson (12 Feb 2016 20:42 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Grimmund (12 Feb 2016 15:58 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (13 Feb 2016 10:10 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Knapp (14 Feb 2016 20:35 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (14 Feb 2016 20:39 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Knapp (14 Feb 2016 20:45 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Greg Chalik (14 Feb 2016 21:23 UTC)
Re: [TML] Instant city Tim (15 Feb 2016 01:03 UTC)
Modelling Traveller Ships in Blender. (Was Re: [TML] Instant city) Peter L. Berghold (14 Feb 2016 20:55 UTC)

Re: Jump Fuel (was Re: [TML] Instant city) shadow@xxxxxx 21 Feb 2016 00:22 UTC

On 15 Feb 2016 at 18:06, Greg Nokes wrote:

> Ok, here's my take on it. 
>
> Early Jump Drives need a gas bubble to inflate the portion of space
> time. These are refined more and more allowing for longer jumps -
> transiting "deeper" jump spaces with stranger physics. 

actually one of the reasons for suggesting the hydrogen jump bubble
(and wanting refined fuel) went like this. I was one of the folks
involved in that bit of ancient history.

It's known that the laws of physics are different in J-space. It's
also know that anything that gets too far from the ship while in jump
("crosses the edge of the bubble") disappears in a burst of nasty
radiation.

same goes for when a damaged jump grids lets J-space intrude into
part of the ship.

Well, it only takes a *small* change in one of the universal
constants (I think it's the fine structure constant) to make neutrons
impossible as well as atomic nuclei.

So if that's one of the changes between N-space and J-space, then
normal matter (including deuterium and tritium) crossing the edge of
the bubble would have *all* their neutrons undergo inverse beta
decay, relasing a positron and a neutrino.

As the positrons react with electrons, that'll give a lot of gamma
radiation and the energy release from all those protons repelling
each other will be significant as well.

So, using "refined" hydrogen (ie only H1, aka "protium") for
"padding" in the jump bubble means there won't be any nasty radiation
(and other problems that might affect the jump bubble) as it
inevitably leaks acvross the bubble boundary.

Obviously, since ships *do* survive unrefined fuel, and having people
of parts/tools drift across the boundary, the rweaction postulated
abpove isn't instantaneous, but takes a bit of time and (likely) much
of it takes place on the other side of the boundary.

Still, it provides a reasonably plausible logic, as well as giving
the ref some nice "local color" for describing what hapens if
something tangles with the boundary of the jump bubble.

--
Leonard Erickson (aka shadow)
shadow at shadowgard dot com