expected ship traffic Timothy Collinson (22 Aug 2014 16:53 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (22 Aug 2014 19:02 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry (22 Aug 2014 19:50 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Bruce Johnson (22 Aug 2014 20:11 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (22 Aug 2014 20:46 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (22 Aug 2014 20:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (22 Aug 2014 21:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (22 Aug 2014 21:34 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry (22 Aug 2014 22:21 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (22 Aug 2014 23:18 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Tim (23 Aug 2014 08:29 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (24 Aug 2014 00:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Greg Chalik (23 Aug 2014 02:26 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Joseph Hallare (23 Aug 2014 06:10 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (23 Aug 2014 23:41 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Greg Chalik (24 Aug 2014 00:26 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (24 Aug 2014 14:53 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (24 Aug 2014 22:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry (24 Aug 2014 22:49 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (24 Aug 2014 23:16 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (24 Aug 2014 22:56 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (25 Aug 2014 00:23 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (25 Aug 2014 05:37 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Greg Chalik (25 Aug 2014 03:16 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (25 Aug 2014 03:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Greg Chalik (25 Aug 2014 04:03 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (25 Aug 2014 04:13 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Greg Chalik (25 Aug 2014 04:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (25 Aug 2014 05:50 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (25 Aug 2014 06:24 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (25 Aug 2014 14:40 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Tim (26 Aug 2014 00:00 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (26 Aug 2014 00:25 UTC)
RE: [TML] expected ship traffic Anthony Jackson (26 Aug 2014 21:45 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry (26 Aug 2014 21:53 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (26 Aug 2014 04:10 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Tim (26 Aug 2014 05:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (26 Aug 2014 13:14 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (26 Aug 2014 15:50 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Tim (27 Aug 2014 04:25 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (27 Aug 2014 20:02 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Bruce Johnson (25 Aug 2014 14:28 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (25 Aug 2014 14:57 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Bruce Johnson (25 Aug 2014 16:20 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry (25 Aug 2014 16:42 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (25 Aug 2014 19:22 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry (25 Aug 2014 19:50 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (25 Aug 2014 20:39 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Kelly St. Clair (25 Aug 2014 19:57 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (25 Aug 2014 20:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry (25 Aug 2014 20:41 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (25 Aug 2014 21:30 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Bruce Johnson (25 Aug 2014 20:43 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (25 Aug 2014 21:25 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Tim (26 Aug 2014 00:21 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Greg Chalik (26 Aug 2014 00:26 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (26 Aug 2014 00:29 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (26 Aug 2014 00:45 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Jeffrey Schwartz (25 Aug 2014 16:48 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry (25 Aug 2014 17:04 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic David Shaw (25 Aug 2014 18:16 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Bruce Johnson (25 Aug 2014 20:17 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (25 Aug 2014 21:09 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry (25 Aug 2014 21:27 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (25 Aug 2014 21:45 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Kurt Feltenberger (25 Aug 2014 21:50 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Kurt Feltenberger (25 Aug 2014 21:55 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Jeffrey Schwartz (26 Aug 2014 13:35 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic John Geoffrey (26 Aug 2014 14:19 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Jeffrey Schwartz (26 Aug 2014 14:31 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic John Geoffrey (26 Aug 2014 14:59 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Tim (27 Aug 2014 02:35 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Kurt Feltenberger (27 Aug 2014 02:41 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Jeffrey Schwartz (27 Aug 2014 13:03 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (27 Aug 2014 19:33 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Jeffrey Schwartz (27 Aug 2014 20:18 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (27 Aug 2014 21:57 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Jeffrey Schwartz (28 Aug 2014 13:06 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (28 Aug 2014 13:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Jeffrey Schwartz (28 Aug 2014 14:04 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic John Geoffrey (28 Aug 2014 14:15 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Jeffrey Schwartz (28 Aug 2014 14:47 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Tim (29 Aug 2014 07:15 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Greg Chalik (28 Aug 2014 20:27 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Kelly St. Clair (27 Aug 2014 05:18 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (27 Aug 2014 19:46 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Timothy Collinson (29 Aug 2014 19:29 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (25 Aug 2014 19:00 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic William Ewing (27 Aug 2014 20:02 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry (27 Aug 2014 20:10 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Jeffrey Schwartz (27 Aug 2014 20:17 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry (27 Aug 2014 20:28 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Timothy Collinson (29 Aug 2014 19:51 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Andrew Long (27 Aug 2014 20:52 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry (27 Aug 2014 21:54 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (25 Aug 2014 06:14 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Richard Aiken (24 Aug 2014 06:35 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (24 Aug 2014 06:51 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Richard Aiken (01 Sep 2014 00:29 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (01 Sep 2014 02:23 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Richard Aiken (02 Sep 2014 00:32 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (02 Sep 2014 00:58 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Tim (24 Aug 2014 07:54 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Greg Chalik (24 Aug 2014 08:21 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (24 Aug 2014 08:44 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (24 Aug 2014 15:21 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic William Ewing (27 Aug 2014 19:41 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (24 Aug 2014 22:35 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (24 Aug 2014 22:51 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (24 Aug 2014 23:05 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Thomas Jones-Low (22 Aug 2014 20:59 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Greg Chalik (22 Aug 2014 21:12 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Thomas Jones-Low (22 Aug 2014 21:21 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Timothy Collinson (22 Aug 2014 21:33 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (24 Aug 2014 00:12 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (24 Aug 2014 15:06 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Tim (23 Aug 2014 07:36 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Timothy Collinson (23 Aug 2014 08:57 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Kelly St. Clair (23 Aug 2014 09:04 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Kelly St. Clair (23 Aug 2014 09:23 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Timothy Collinson (23 Aug 2014 11:19 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Tim (23 Aug 2014 11:53 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (23 Aug 2014 23:49 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Phil Pugliese (23 Aug 2014 23:45 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Freelance Traveller (27 Aug 2014 22:31 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Ian Whitchurch (27 Aug 2014 23:11 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry (27 Aug 2014 23:43 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic John Geoffrey (28 Aug 2014 12:04 UTC)
Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Richard Aiken (29 Aug 2014 13:30 UTC)

Re: [TML] expected ship traffic Craig Berry 25 Aug 2014 21:27 UTC

On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Phil Pugliese (via tml list)
<xxxxxx@simplelists.com> wrote:
> Underlying it all is my belief that the super-hi (compared to us) tech a universe like the TU would possess would work to diminish trade volume, not increase it.

On that point, we are in strong agreement. Reasonable extrapolation
tells us that soon (in historical terms, and *well* before the 57th
century) we will be able to "magically" turn raw materials into any
desired goods on demand. At that point, the only things worth moving
around physically are sentient organic beings (assuming those still
matter), items of unique value like original artworks, and (most
especially) information. In such a universe, there would be
essentially no cargo shipping as we think of it. Sentients would
congregate near sources of raw materials, and trade blueprints with
other similar settlements.

That makes for some fine transhuman storytelling. But it looks nothing
like Traveller, and the reason is that Traveller is not (and has never
been) super high tech. There are elements of technology that we can't
produce, mostly involving propulsion and weaponry. But there is no
pervasive change in the fundamentals, such as an economy of scarcity.
Traveller is fundamentally about a late 20th century society that
happens to have gravitics, jump drives, and meson guns.

Thus, the trick to making Traveller work has always been keeping the
cables which support suspension of disbelief both sufficiently strong
and reasonably well hidden. This will necessarily involve some
handwaving. Where those handwaves work best is a matter of taste,
bolstered (or otherwise) by canon. In this case, since we know the 3I
has a great deal of trade from a number of canon-based arguments, it
seems to me easiest to assume that this trade will follow the usual
rules of business and economics. Giant container ships serving major
worlds follows as a natural consequence.

You can choose other handwaves to get one Far Trader a week visiting
Mora, but in that universe you are left with the questions Bruce asked
-- where does the 3I get its tax revenue, and what exactly does it
protect? If worlds are that self-sufficient, why does anyone ever
invade anyone else's territory? For that matter, why does anyone
travel(tm) at all?

>
> So what it really comes down to is a matter of personal preference, no?
>
> What do you like better, the MT 'universe' or the CT one?
>
> p.s. From what I've read it appears that T5 favors the 'less is better' school of thought.
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--
Craig Berry (http://google.com/+CraigBerry)
"Eternity is in love with the productions of time." - William Blake